Exposed gears/chain

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Yes, and no, but I will take some at our next regional.

The forklift motor is mounted at the top of a lift frame and the gears were mounted on the outside of the frame so it was definitely a pinching hazard. We felt the drive gearboxes were one of those "well, if you really want to stick your fingers in there, you're asking for it" things, but better safe than sorry.

Thank you, this is good to know so we can have a plan in place in case we fall into the same situation.

[Fields]

At week 0 one of the inspectors (who is also the lead at one of the regionals) told us we will need guards for our robot to pass inspection.

We are just making a bunch of plastic disks that will slide on the axles on either side of the sprockets. They are large enough to extend past the chain and stiff even though they are fairly thin. They are held in place by the sprocket and either the frame or a collar. This way they spin loose on the axle in case you bump up against it.

Maybe I'll post pictures later.

[magnets]

Robot shields can present a false sense of security. You should NOT be working on a power up and enabled robot if you are concerned about safety.

I've had to deal with OSHA regulations this year, and let me tell you, the people who write these things have never used this sort of equipment in their lives. In some cases, OSHA regulations make equipment more dangerous - such as 'safety' shields that get parts stuck against grinding wheels, saw blades...

[Steven Smith]

The primary "OSHA like" regulation I'd use (as someone who deals with it daily) is lock-out / tag-out, which is sufficient for purposes of working on a robot.

I'm not actually saying to apply a locking device on the computer, but in general... but either by direct control (throwing breaker) or procedure, make it well known that robots are not to be enabled when anyone is working on them.

The bigger concern I typically see is just people getting too close to robots moving (whether it be a pinch point or just something moving quickly with lots of mass). It's particularly an issue on practice fields at events, with 6 teams + drivers + pit all standing around trying to troubleshoot an issue, with moving robots less than 5 feet away from them.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Thank you, this is good to know so we can have a plan in place in case we fall into the same situation.

I panicked for a few moments trying to think of how we could quickly fashion a guard - we didn't bring enough spare aluminum, and I was starting to figure out how I was going to quickly cut and bend a U-shaped bracket out of Lexan... then we found an extra piece of coroplast we were using to mount our team number, folded that into the appropriate shape, added some self-tapping screws and voila! Problem solved.

For the drive gearbox cover plates we did cut some Lexan so we could still see what was going on down there.

[Andy Brockway]

I do not understand why there are more restrictive requirements at some regionals. Not able to compete because an inspector requires a chain guard?? How can this happen? I can understand a guard being required if a failure could cause parts of the robot to fly off the field but not a chain. No one should be touching the robot while it is running on the field.

[hunterteam3476]

Originally Posted by Cory

Following Rule #1 of "Don't be an idiot" will generally protect you from open gears/chains.

If you're not following Rule #1...well a guard probably isn't going to protect you either.

Our Inspector made us make chain guards at competition or he wasn't going to pass us..... Fun stuff....

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Cory

Following Rule #1 of "Don't be an idiot" will generally protect you from open gears/chains.

If you're not following Rule #1...well a guard probably isn't going to protect you either.

While I generally agree with this sentiment, it won't work in the real world if you're being audited by OSHA.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by efoote868

While I generally agree with this sentiment, it won't work in the real world if you're being audited by OSHA.

There is no requirement to comply with OSHA standards as a FRC team.

I'm all for safety but adding guards is often not actually more safe than teaching students real safety (like never working on the robot without it being disabled, or even better, off entirely).

The fact that volunteers will often invent or incorrectly interpret rules requiring changes to the robot (in this case adding guards) is a source of continual frustration. Nowhere in the manual does it say all pinch points must be protected from insertion of a finger. Obviously anything egregiously unsafe should be addressed, but that's not what is generally being discussed here.

People will reply with "But safety!!!", but there is only so much you can do to protect people from themselves and at a certain point the safety theater becomes a burden for everyone.

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by Cory

There is no requirement to comply with OSHA standards as a FRC team.

I'm all for safety but adding guards is often not actually more safe than teaching students real safety (like never working on the robot without it being disabled, or even better, off entirely).

The fact that volunteers will often invent or incorrectly interpret rules requiring changes to the robot (in this case adding guards) is a source of continual frustration. Nowhere in the manual does it say all pinch points must be protected from insertion of a finger. Obviously anything egregiously unsafe should be addressed, but that's not what is generally being discussed here.

People will reply with "But safety!!!", but there is only so much you can do to protect people from themselves and at a certain point the safety theater becomes a burden for everyone.

Agreed. I would much rather have students protected by sound decision making skills than by chain guards you learn you have to add only once you're at the regional. Sheids etc do have their place, but chain guards are only really in a position to be helpful if you're sticking your hand inside an enabled robot. If you're doing that, you're asking to be hurt whether or not there are chain guards.

To draw a parallel to surfing: you can make everyone wear a life jacket before they can even look at water, but at the end of the day it's best to give people a healthy understanding, respect and fear of the ocean.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Agreed. I would much rather have students protected by sound decision making skills than by chain guards you learn you have to add only once you're at the regional. Sheids etc do have their place, but chain guards are only really in a position to be helpful if you're sticking your hand inside an enabled robot. If you're doing that, you're asking to be hurt whether or not there are chain guards.

To draw a parallel to surfing: you can make everyone wear a life jacket before they can even look at water, but at the end of the day it's best to give people a healthy understanding, respect and fear of the ocean.

I think there's an XKCD on this topic...

And this is exactly right. I also agree with Cory's "safety theater" comment: I was reprimanded earlier this year for not yelling "robot" in front of a virtually empty pit row. Is it technically safer to yell robot at all times? Probably. What are the chances that it will ever stop someone from being hurt? Near zero.

Here's a really interesting look at why school buses don't have seat-belts in them (generally): http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40820669/n.../#.VQCkwvnF_8o

This is safety design done intelligently and effectively.

[barn34]

My personal rule of thumb is that if a system failure could cause serious injury even while the robot is properly disabled and/or unpowered (perfect example is a stored energy catapault from 2014) you should definitely implement some sort of safety device for that system.

For example, if any part of our shooter latch system would have failed last year (pneumatic system, latch control, set point check, latch pin, etc.) it would have made for a very bad day for anyone with a body part anywhere near it even with the robot properly disabled. Thus, we made sure to diligently utilize a safety strap anytime work was required around the robot when energy was stored in the catapault and the robot disabled and/or unpowered.

On the flip side, we have exposed sprockets and chains on the intake of our robot this year, but we don't utilize a specific guard or shield. The reason is because anytime the robot is properly disabled, those gears/sprockets aren't at risk of moving and causing an injury. See the difference between the two situations? If you follow general safe procedures regarding robot/person interaction and making sure the robot is always disabled and/or unpowered, you shouldn't have a safety concern regarding open sprockets and chains. Does that make sense?

[s_forbes]

Originally Posted by Cory

There is no requirement to comply with OSHA standards as a FRC team.

I'm all for safety but adding guards is often not actually more safe than teaching students real safety (like never working on the robot without it being disabled, or even better, off entirely).

I can't recall ever getting to work on equipment in industry before going through a certification class. If it were as easy as educating people to not do unsafe things, why are there OSHA standards?

I think it's safe to assume that the vast majority of people that work on or around our robots are not idiots and know that sticking their finger into a chain will have bad consequences. Accidents happen when people aren't paying attention and inadvertently put their hand where it shouldn't go.

During testing this year, I was a few inches away from getting a finger caught in a floating idler, since I forgot it had been added to the robot, and didn't check that the robot was disabled. I can assure you that I wouldn't have been close to that spot if I knew that, but miscommunication, accidents... etc.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by s_forbes

I can't recall ever getting to work on equipment in industry before going through a certification class. If it were as easy as educating people to not do unsafe things, why are there OSHA standards?

Because OSHA exists to force the employer to create a safe environment for employees when they would otherwise cut corners to save cost.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Cory

There is no requirement to comply with OSHA standards as a FRC team.

I can tell my co-workers all day long to not be an idiot, but that won't prevent them from being tired, or sleepy, or hurried, or stressed, or distracted, or uncoordinated... in general, careless and prone to mistakes.

I can however engineer out risks whenever I'm able to; otherwise I'll put barriers and guarding in between the identified risks and my coworkers; when I find that isn't enough I will require specific safety equipment and procedures in order to keep them safe.