Bag and Tag at Worlds

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

According to the FRCTeams Twitter account,
So, get your crate open as soon as you get there Wednesday, no hassle from inspectors!

Is it weird that this information is on social media (Facebook too) but hasn't been blogged yet?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

Is it weird that this information is on social media (Facebook too) but hasn't been blogged yet?

Nah...I don't think this is a critical piece of information that teams need to know before they arrive. Heck, last year the decision was announced to inspectors 30 mins before the doors opened, and teams only found out after they got in the building. It's something teams will deal with for all of 5 mins after they get the robot out of the crate and then completely forget about the rest of the event. Other stuff that was blogged, like load in/load out details or match schedule, have bigger implications for teams in terms of bus/trailer scheduling, pre-scouting, and such. Those types of things typically require some amount of planning or awareness ahead of time.

[Toolman]

FYI FIRST sent out a greetings 2015 FRC Championship Teams email to team leaders stating:
NO Robot Bag Inspection after Load in:" There will be no robot bag inspection at Championship this year. Simply unbag and start work on your robot immediately after Load IN."

[MrForbes]

I guess this makes it really official...

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...-its-happening

Oh, and in case you haven’t heard, we won’t be doing robot bag or lock-up form inspections at the event. When you get to your robot, just open you bag right up, no need to wait for an Inspector. We want to get through Inspections as quickly (and, of course, as safely) as we can to ensure everyone is ready for their qualifying matches.

[ToddF]

Waiving bag inspection at the CMP makes perfect sense, if it's done after all robot crates have arrived. Letting everyone think it will be required ensures that all robots remain bagged AS IF it were going to be a requirement. Removing the requirement after the crates have been shipped removes the resource cost of actually performing inspections.

Now that this has happened two years in a row, next year it would be wise to actually perform the inspections, just to keep everyone on their toes. Otherwise, bagging for championships is going to go the way of the seat saving rule: official rule popularly ignored.

[zsnow]

Originally Posted by ToddF

Now that this has happened two years in a row, next year it would be wise to actually perform the inspections, just to keep everyone on their toes. Otherwise, bagging for championships is going to go the way of the seat saving rule: official rule popularly ignored.

I think most honest teams would be unaffected regardless of whether they expect their forms to be checked or not. Dishonest teams (or a few dishonest members of an honest team) might just falsify the form if they really wanted to make modifications to their robot. The idea of bagging and tagging to ensure equal robot access time certainly makes sense. While I think loosening restrictions would be inconsequential, I don't see the rule going away any time soon.

[Jon Stratis]

I could see bag and tag officially going away for champs at some point in the future. Per section 5.8.2 of the admin manual, robots going to champs need to be shipped by the Thursday following your last event, which would give all teams earning a spot an equal amount of unbag time between their event and shipping. The problem comes in with wait-listed teams... If your last event is week one and you come off the wait list in week 6, that gives you a significant unbag period that others don't get. Maybe require bagging for wait list teams, up until the weekend before they ship their robot? That would cut down the number of bags that need to be checked significantly, but still require some checked bags, and thus delays for teams at champs.

[MrForbes]

It was well after Tuesday when we finally got through the shipping paperwork email tag game, and found out that the robot really needed to be shipped no later than the Monday a week after our last regional.

[FrankJ]

We got the paperwork Fri afternoon (week 4). They wanted the robot shipped by Sunday. The manual says Thursday after your last event. Where you are and when your last event is can make a big difference. Slow LTL from Atlanta to St Louis is 3-4 days. It can be a lot longer in other parts of the states or the rest of the world.

I can see keeping the bag requirement even if every one knows it won't be checked. It keeps honest finger honest & kills the temptation to dump code, measure something, etc. Even if teams as a group are honest, there is always one individual...

[PayneTrain]

I like to think that next year FIRST could allow some unbag time between your last event and your ship time. Something like 4 hours where you can work on the machine before you box it up. This idea has some hang up points but you could potentially start Wednesdays at cmp later.

[MrForbes]

Maybe, but keep in mind that the work expands to fill the available time.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I like to think that next year FIRST could allow some unbag time between your last event and your ship time. Something like 4 hours where you can work on the machine before you box it up. This idea has some hang up points but you could potentially start Wednesdays at cmp later.

We need the whole time Wednesday to get teams inspected at cmp, and even then we're rushing Thursday morning. To get the last few stragglers. Adding unbag time won't help this, it'll just give teams more time to screw up the robot to the point where it won't pass. Last year, I ended up sitting in a team's pit Thursday morning, wiring their robot before they even arrived (well after pits opened) just so they could pass inspection before their first match. Not something I wanted to do, but without it the team would have missed their first match entirely.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

We need the whole time Wednesday to get teams inspected at cmp, and even then we're rushing Thursday morning. To get the last few stragglers. Adding unbag time won't help this, it'll just give teams more time to screw up the robot to the point where it won't pass. Last year, I ended up sitting in a team's pit Thursday morning, wiring their robot before they even arrived (well after pits opened) just so they could pass inspection before their first match. Not something I wanted to do, but without it the team would have missed their first match entirely.

I was expecting someone with inspecting experience to tell me this would probably be the biggest issue.

I'll just keep dreaming.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by ToddF

Now that this has happened two years in a row, next year it would be wise to actually perform the inspections, just to keep everyone on their toes. Otherwise, bagging for championships is going to go the way of the seat saving rule: official rule popularly ignored.

What if all those inspectors with no bags to inspect were instead assigned to inspect the stands, and remove seat-saving items?

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

What if all those inspectors with no bags to inspect were instead assigned to inspect the stands, and remove seat-saving items?

This is the greatest idea anyone on this board has ever come up with. Ever. Zero hyperbole.