Center Can Dilemma

[CenterCanQ]

With the presence of multiple stacking kings per division at champs this year, practicing with the center cans in qualifications might cause some problems.

For example, our team is working on an autonomous mode that takes two center cans and brings them into the auto zone. We will likely run into several matches where these cans will be needed to cap stacks for the opposing alliance, but will not be so needed by our alliance in teleop. Also, imho we are not fast enough at taking the cans that the function will be eliminations-worthy.

So, at what point is taking the cans un-gp? We’d like tons of practice, and the potential auto points are a nice bonus, but it doesn’t seem right to deny dozens of points from the other alliance for the chance that we could get only 8. What do we do if an opponent actually asks us not to take cans? Have any other teams been in this same boat?

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Would you not block an opposing robot in aerial assault if they told you not to?
Do whatever you want with those cans, it's part of the game

[TylerS]

Originally Posted by CenterCanQ

With the presence of multiple stacking kings per division at champs this year, practicing with the center cans in qualifications might cause some problems.

For example, our team is working on an autonomous mode that takes two center cans and brings them into the auto zone. We will likely run into several matches where these cans will be needed to cap stacks for the opposing alliance, but will not be so needed by our alliance in teleop. Also, imho we are not fast enough at taking the cans that the function will be eliminations-worthy.

So, at what point is taking the cans un-gp? We’d like tons of practice, and the potential auto points are a nice bonus, but it doesn’t seem right to deny dozens of points from the other alliance for the chance that we could get only 8. What do we do if an opponent actually asks us not to take cans? Have any other teams been in this same boat?

I would never ask the opposing alliance not to run their canburgling auto and I don't think it'd be un gp to tell the other alliance no if they asked. Qualifications are about trying to rank as high as possible and showing off for elims. By not can burgling you're hurting your own alliance and the way scouters are evaluating your team from the stands.

[Necroterra]

IMO, the only un-GP behaviors you could do in regards to the center cans would be to intentionally sabotage one particular team. Either by only using your fast can-burglar against one particular team and letting other teams get ahead of them, or by convincing other teams to similarly sabotage one particular team. Using it as much as possible is actually the most GP and in the spirit of the game, since it's supposed to be about your robot doing the best it can.

[KosmicKhaos]

Originally Posted by CenterCanQ

So, at what point is taking the cans un-gp?

There is no point at which this becomes "un-gp". Who cares if the other alliance doesn't want you to take the cans? They're your matches that your team payed for so do whatever you want, don't let a team try to determine what you do in your matches. Even if you don't end up using the cans in stacks, you are playing a form of "defense" by disallowing those cans that the other alliance could have used in their stacks.

[MrForbes]

It looks to me like the object of the game is to score points, and the way you score a lot of points is by putting cans on stacks of totes. So get those cans, and put them on totes.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by Necroterra

IMO, the only un-GP behaviors you could do in regards to the center cans would be to intentionally sabotage one particular team. Either by only using your fast can-burglar against one particular team and letting other teams get ahead of them, or by convincing other teams to similarly sabotage one particular team. Using it as much as possible is actually the most GP and in the spirit of the game, since it's supposed to be about your robot doing the best it can.

Idk, I agree going around telling teams to race this team and not others is pretty shady and shouldn't be a thing but I think racing particular teams yourself is solid strategy and the equivalent of playing defense on a powerhouse.

[CenterCanQ]

Thanks so much you all for the fast feedback! I just wanted to make sure nobody would see this as a reason to be irked at us.

[Necroterra]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Idk, I agree going around telling teams to race this team and not others is pretty shady and shouldn't be a thing but I think racing particular teams yourself is solid strategy and the equivalent of playing defense on a powerhouse.

I should clarify. I meant, let's say you are on Curie field, have a beef with 1114, and have a faster canburglar than they do. If in every match against them you targeted their cans, but against all other teams you let the cans go free, you would be sandbagging one team in particular by raising every other team's relative scores. This would require you to manipulate the cans based on how well the teams on each side were doing to maximize everyone's scores.

There isn't anything wrong with aiming your canburglar at a particular team, that's just good strategy.

[JohnFogarty]

By employing such strategy even without using the cans in teleop, you are in a sense playing one of the only forms of defense possible in this game. Taking those cans effectively limits the opposing alliance's possible score. Take that how you want, but it's completely logical for you to do so.

[cglrcng]

Not just the cans...Empty that shelf completely, and replace it all w/ that golden Coop stack 6 high if you can in the first 35 seconds. LOl.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

It looks to me like the object of the game is to score points, and the way you score a lot of points is by putting cans on stacks of totes. So get those cans, and put them on totes.

Yes. And if you can't score the points yourself, then denying your opponents the opportunity to score the points is the next best thing. It's basic game theory.

I don't think the OP should be concerned.

[dellagd]

The only opportunity for bad Gracious Professionalism here is in reneging on any agreements with your opposing alliance. Your have the right to make any rule-abiding strategic decisions with your own alliance that you want. However, if your opponents come up to you and ask what your plan with the center cans is, maybe because they don't want to risk damaging their grabber in the quals or whatever, and you lie to them, then that is un-GP.

Just saying you'd rather not say is perfectly acceptable too, even if it might come off as a little coy in a qual match. In my experience, a simple conversation with the opposing alliance's coaches can solve most center can issues pretty quickly.

[Kevin Ray]

As said above, "You've paid to be there" and have earned a spot in the World Championship. You have just as much right to practice with those RC's as any other team on the field.
If they needed them so much for THEIR game strategy, then they should have developed a can theft auto program faster than yours to get them (you wouldn't feel un-gp if they took them from you, would you?)

PLAY YOUR GAME!!!

[AdamHeard]

Go for the throat.

Uhhh I mean cans.