Disapointed in ending.

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Posted by nick237 at 04/10/2001 10:23 PM EST


Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.



This years end to the " 10th " anaversery seemed to be some what of a let down. In the past we were entertained by some amazing acts. Musical bands and dancers who entertained all the people in the stands was a fitting end to the competition. I did expect some thing truely great as this was the "10th" year. The fire works were as usual wonderful but we get that each year, we also in the past had a phenominal laser show.
This year we were given as usual a great fire works display, no real laser show and no live entertainment but we did get three videos, the last one would be discribed as nothing less that disgusting filth, " shame on you Dean " My wife and two children were in the audience along with my niece who had traveled from England to witness the hype of FIRST first hand, now she can return to England with a sour tast in her mouth and a discusting vision forever etched in her young, impressional mind. A great way to end a 10 year success story.
nick reynolds.

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Posted by Janna at 04/10/2001 11:11 PM EST


Student on team #349, The RoBahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Company and Robert Bosch GmbH.


In Reply to: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by nick237 on 04/10/2001 10:23 PM EST:



: This year we were given as usual a great fire works display, no real laser show and no live entertainment but we did get three videos, the last one would be discribed as nothing less that disgusting filth, " shame on you Dean "

Maybe it's just me but I can't believe someone would be so concerned about the details of the closing ceremonies. The competition is about so much more than that and for me, Dean could have provided the best laser shows, dancers, and musicians and none of it could have matched the "live entertainment" of the actual competition. Nationals are not about being entertained by others but instead creating excitement with the team and the robot. To say that one inappropriate video (which Dean apologized for) could erode all the positive energy from FIRST seems like an exaggeration to me. Perhaps your niece just didn't spend enough time talking to people who could feed off the gracious professionalism and the excitement between teams. In any case, I'm sorry you and your family did not find the competition as exciting as you had hoped and perhaps you won't find next year's entertainment quite as disappointing.

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Posted by nick237 at 04/11/2001 12:08 AM EST


Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by Janna on 04/10/2001 11:11 PM EST:



Possibly you enjoyed the last video but it wasnt just one video but three....
I guess it just depends on what gutter ones mind is in. I and many others didnt hear the apology as we were leaving in disgust, Dean is responsible for everything that went on in Florida as the buck stops there.
A simple "ooooops" is not in order and neither does it make it right.
My Niece is 14 and comes from a protective enviroment where this garbage is not seen, is this the sort of thing you want your parents to know you viewed at FIRST.
The Nationals "are" about being entertained by others, if it wasnt entertaining then no one would go. All aspects of the competition have to be in good taste and if the video was put on in error as a filler then you have to ask " WHY " this trash was within 20 miles of a family entertainment center, and why it wasnt viewed for content prior.
If you think my sister will spend thousands of $$$ and send her daughter ( my niece ) 6000 miles back next year to view any improvements then some one must be out of your minds.
As Dean has said in the past " the key to success is good planning " This was poor planning.
nick


: Maybe it's just me but I can't believe someone would be so concerned about the details of the closing ceremonies. The competition is about so much more than that and for me, Dean could have provided the best laser shows, dancers, and musicians and none of it could have matched the "live entertainment" of the actual competition. Nationals are not about being entertained by others but instead creating excitement with the team and the robot. To say that one inappropriate video (which Dean apologized for) could erode all the positive energy from FIRST seems like an exaggeration to me. Perhaps your niece just didn't spend enough time talking to people who could feed off the gracious professionalism and the excitement between teams. In any case, I'm sorry you and your family did not find the competition as exciting as you had hoped and perhaps you won't find next year's entertainment quite as disappointing.

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Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 04/11/2001 1:59 AM EST


Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.reply
Posted by nick237 on 04/11/2001 12:08 AM EST:



Okay. Firstly, Dean is NOT the supreme high ruler of all that is FIRST. I can almost guarantee you that, while he's the founder and a big guy behind the scenes, he's not watching every decision that's made about nationals. The fact that the DJ had some videos that could be used as filler probably never came up in the planning meetings. No one expected the awards ceremony to be that far ahead of schedule. Then Dean was on stage when the actual decision to play the videos was made. And it was probably made from about a city block away. Frankly, t's not Dean's or anyone's fault that this happened. It was just a typical administrative screw-up. Accidents happen and people learn from them. Live with it. If you're going to let a few videos ruin your whole FIRST experience, then you're obviously in this for the wrong reasons.


Secondly, I thought the final show was pretty good. But even if it was horrible, it wouldn't make a difference. The awards ceremony is just so much useless fluff, really. It's basically just to make things look nice for the media who are only there on saturday. You know what would have really, phenomenally disappointed me? If Dean had decided to spend twice as much money on the awards ceremony to make it kick $@#$@#$@#, but then had to drop a field, or cut back somehow on the competition. That's the wholepont of nationals after all. I don't think anybody goes to nationals thinking "I wonder what the awards ceremony or team party will be like this year" Everybody's wondering what the other robots are like and how they'll do. FIRST is about the competition, not some silly awards ceremony. Like I said, if a silly mistake at the awards ceremony has soured you on FIRST, then you really need to think about why you're in this.

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Posted by Ernie Wright at 04/11/2001 4:03 PM EST


Student on team #254, Cheesy Poofs, from Bellarmine College Prep and NASA Ames, Unity Care, Cypress Semiconductor.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.reply
Posted by nick237 on 04/11/2001 12:08 AM EST:



Nick,

Although I am not one to point fingers, your eagerness to criticize Dean and those who disagree with your opinions are nothing but shameful. I am sure that Dean never intended for those videos to be shown. All he can do is apologize, which he did, and if you were there to hear it you would have seen that Dean was genuinely sorry. What more do you want him to do? He cant take back what happened. You repeatedly mention your niece who came from England and how appalling it was for her to see that video ; have you ever seen whats on TV and the newsstands in England? (anyone spending any amount of time in England has seen undergarments and much much more)You also said that it wasnt just this one video that you found offensive; where were you when those earlier offensive videos were being shown? why didnt't you say anything? You could have prevented that final video from being shown to the 15,000 people that saw it, therefore I believe you are partly to blame Nick. In closing of my thoughts Nick, shame on you for being so quick to criticize Dean and all the other people who worked to make this the magnificent event that it was, and thats exactly what it was; nothing less than magnificent.

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Posted by mike oleary at 04/11/2001 9:08 PM EST


Student on team #419, rambots, from bc high and sponsors are overrated..go pocket-change robots!!!.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.reply
Posted by nick237 on 04/11/2001 12:08 AM EST:



youre neice is 14 years old...that makes her what a freshman in high school, or 8th grade or something? i understand how there can be overprotective parents and whatnot but i have 2 sisters one is in 6th grade the others in 4th...when i come home from school they inevitably have the tv on...and its never on disney or nickalodean or something...it almost always has youre 'garbage' on. if seeing this would spoil youre neices FIRST experiance then id have to say that the entire game was not a success this year. the point of FIRST is to get young students interested in engineering. i just struggle to see how 2minutes and 30 seconds of questionable content can spoil 3+ days of awesome fun and excitement...
personally, i think that FIRST is overall successful in their objective. before i joined the rambots i hated sciences. then i got involved in with the team and realized that it was great...now i am considering majoring or at least minoring in engineering. and i know that im not the only story like that out there.
inevitably there are people who just arent gonna have fun with engineering and technology and you just have to accept that. the only way that i can picture one poorly chosen music video's spoiling the nationals experiance is if the person in question wasnt big on engineering and technology in the first place. just like some people dont like sports, or reading, or rollar coasters no matter how much you expose them to what you feel to be the best part of the sports or reading or rollar coasters, it wont make a difference, some people are the same way with engineering.
did youre niece complain to you, or did you take up this crusade of youre own initiative, using youre neice's 'virgin' eyes as an excuse? and if she did actually complain about the video, maybe she just didnt have a good experiance overall and was trying to find something to blame it on in a way so as to offend you as little as possible...i know that if i were to go to a hockey tournement or something that my uncle organised and participated in and put all his time and effort into, and didnt like it at all, i wouldnt say 'yeah the whole thing was horrible how could you possibley like this' id try to find a more discreet approach, like 'it was fun but the people sitting in front of me were too tall and wore big hats like the 'cat in the hat''
wow that was long...im impressed if anyone actually read all that
mike who needs shorter posts

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Posted by Patrick Dingle at 04/10/2001 11:49 PM EST


Coach on team #639, Red B^2, from Ithaca High School and Cornell University.


In Reply to: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by nick237 on 04/10/2001 10:23 PM EST:



We can look forward to next year, when Dean will reveal IT at Nationals. Imagine how much media attention there will be on FIRST next year if he does that -- and I think he will.

Mistakes happen -- but that's how we learn.

Patrick

: This years end to the " 10th " anaversery seemed to be some what of a let down. In the past we were entertained by some amazing acts. Musical bands and dancers who entertained all the people in the stands was a fitting end to the competition. I did expect some thing truely great as this was the "10th" year. The fire works were as usual wonderful but we get that each year, we also in the past had a phenominal laser show.
: This year we were given as usual a great fire works display, no real laser show and no live entertainment but we did get three videos, the last one would be discribed as nothing less that disgusting filth, " shame on you Dean " My wife and two children were in the audience along with my niece who had traveled from England to witness the hype of FIRST first hand, now she can return to England with a sour tast in her mouth and a discusting vision forever etched in her young, impressional mind. A great way to end a 10 year success story.
: nick reynolds.

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Posted by Billy Mallard at 04/11/2001 12:24 AM EST


Student on team #254, the Cheesy Poofs, from Bellarmine College Prep and NASA.


In Reply to: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by nick237 on 04/10/2001 10:23 PM EST:



I'm fairly certain i'm not the only one who feels this way. But people don't like to be so controversial. Well i don't mind. So here it is. I'll come right out and say it without apologizing every few lines.

I'm sick of all the talk about this video.

: " shame on you Dean "

Yeah, i'm sure dean was thinking, "Hmm. What could i possibly play at the very end of the closing ceremonies to offend people?" Maybe you didn't notice the apology at the end? Planning a national competition with 362 teams is probably not easy, and i think it was executed very well.

Besides, i don't know if you noticed, but Dean hasn't exactly been paying attention to pop culture in the last few decades (as was demonstrated in his interview with 60 minutes, if you recall). So Dean isn't the one to blame anyway.

You sure are pointing out something rather small from the whole thing. You're saying that you're disappointed with a massive three day event because of a 15 second video clip? Come on. It's not like the media and pop culture are any better. Do your two children (or any of their friends, for that matter) listen to Britney Spears or any other pop singer who dresses in skimpy outfits and makes a profit by teaching young girls to be apathetic sex objects? Get off it.

I was somewhat taken off guard when the confetti machine -- parked about 18 inches to my left at the closing show -- malfunctioned and started raining down solid state CO2 on everone nearby for a good 60 seconds. But i didn't let it ruin the whole $@#$@#$@#$@# competition for me.

Give Dean and everyone who worked so hard on this competition a break. You couldn't do any better.

Now, i would also like to point out an observation i have made over my life. The harder you repress someone throughout their life, the harder they snap back. If you shelter a kid when they're young, they're gonna go wild when they get older. Having attended religious schools all my life, i've seen this over and over again. I won't get into details, but i feel i have a pretty solid basis for this theory. Besides, sheltering someone makes them unable to deal with such problems when they encounter them later in life.

In closing, I contend that pop culture is the most cancerous form of "immorality" in this country today. Also, one must realize that there is no set morality; it is open to personal interpretation. If you don't think so, then you haven't studied societal trends of morality very much. There are certain things that tend to alter this perception, such as religion and the media. But you must realize that your ideas are not infallible.

If you really feel that strongly, try to limit your contact with all media since its so $@#$@#$@#$@# immoral. In fact, you'd better sever all contact with the rest of the world, just to be safe.

Feel free to disagree. I really could care less.

Open your mind.

--> Billy

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Posted by Erin at 04/11/2001 6:53 AM EST


Other on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by nick237 on 04/10/2001 10:23 PM EST:



Ok, I am getting tired of everyone freaking out about the music videos!!! I have talked to my friends parents who were there, teachers, etc. And yes they weren't happy, but the fact is, is that no matter how hard you freak out, you can't change what happened. What they did they learned from. And like some pointed out in previous posts (lots of them regarding this issue), it was probably someone in a media department who didn't know what the spirit of FIRST was all about and who didn't know the "criterion of approvability or appropriateness" for music videos. And being someone who is 19 and grew up watching MTV, that video should be the least of your worries. They could have played Mystikal's videos, Snoop Dogg's videos, or even that one with Blink 182 where they are all naked. Don't go about letting the whole year get ruined for yourself because of one person's bad choice (a.k.a. "Get Crunked Up&quot. I am sure they are learning from the experience, esp. with the way everyone is taking this issue.

Erin



p.s.: Would it have been more appropriate to see Britney Spears' up there, singing a harmless song but flashing herself around in an inappropriate way? I don't think you can get "decent" videos anymore these days.

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Posted by Tate Tickoff at 04/11/2001 7:44 AM EST


Other on team #-666, The Guggenheims, from Transylvania Low and Dr. Frakenfuter.


In Reply to: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by nick237 on 04/10/2001 10:23 PM EST:



> This years end to the " 10th " anaversery seemed to
> be some what of a let down.

Okay, now I think I've been a rather nice guy since I've joined this magnificent forum, but quite frankly I'm getting tired of your inane chatter, Nick. You remind me of the boil on St. Nicks back making him drop the kids from his lap instead of placing them down gently and promising gifts. Or how about the stye in the Easter Bunnie's eye provoking him to paint skulls and scenes of death on kid's easter eggs.

Quite frankly if you're really sick of FIRST, get the frig out. We dont need people with negative attitudes here, although I hate to tell anyone to leave FIRST 'cause it's pretty tough to get them in here in the first place. Quit your attempts at bringing the rest of us down.

Yknow, In the gaming world we have a name for people who just go to the game forums and badmouth the game that forum was made for: Lamer. You wanna be the first FIRST lamer or do you wanna talk about how things can be improved?

-Tate Tickoff
"your words leave a sour taste in my mouth"

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Posted by Patrick Dingle at 04/11/2001 3:29 PM EST


Coach on team #639, Red B^2, from Ithaca High School and Cornell University.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by Tate Tickoff on 04/11/2001 7:44 AM EST:



I don't know who wrote this message, but whoever did should reconsider what they said. Nick's messages may sometimes seem negative, but some of his messages are also positive and humorous. All the hard work people like Nick put into FIRST teams can sometimes go unnoticed, and often it can be a letdown when a year doesn't go as well as previous years have. It is only natural to express disappointment when you are disappointed. Sometimes posts may sound negative, but how can we make improvements when people don't express what they didn't like?

Just what I felt had to be said.

Patrick


: > This years end to the " 10th " anaversery seemed to
: > be some what of a let down.

: Okay, now I think I've been a rather nice guy since I've joined this magnificent forum, but quite frankly I'm getting tired of your inane chatter, Nick. You remind me of the boil on St. Nicks back making him drop the kids from his lap instead of placing them down gently and promising gifts. Or how about the stye in the Easter Bunnie's eye provoking him to paint skulls and scenes of death on kid's easter eggs.

: Quite frankly if you're really sick of FIRST, get the frig out. We dont need people with negative attitudes here, although I hate to tell anyone to leave FIRST 'cause it's pretty tough to get them in here in the first place. Quit your attempts at bringing the rest of us down.

: Yknow, In the gaming world we have a name for people who just go to the game forums and badmouth the game that forum was made for: Lamer. You wanna be the first FIRST lamer or do you wanna talk about how things can be improved?

: -Tate Tickoff
: "your words leave a sour taste in my mouth"

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Posted by nick237 at 04/11/2001 5:06 PM EST


Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by Patrick Dingle on 04/11/2001 3:29 PM EST:



Thanks Patrick, I apreciate your honesty, you seem to be the only one who got it.
nick


: I don't know who wrote this message, but whoever did should reconsider what they said. Nick's messages may sometimes seem negative, but some of his messages are also positive and humorous. All the hard work people like Nick put into FIRST teams can sometimes go unnoticed, and often it can be a letdown when a year doesn't go as well as previous years have. It is only natural to express disappointment when you are disappointed. Sometimes posts may sound negative, but how can we make improvements when people don't express what they didn't like?

: Just what I felt had to be said.

: Patrick

:
: : > This years end to the " 10th " anaversery seemed to
: : > be some what of a let down.

: : Okay, now I think I've been a rather nice guy since I've joined this magnificent forum, but quite frankly I'm getting tired of your inane chatter, Nick. You remind me of the boil on St. Nicks back making him drop the kids from his lap instead of placing them down gently and promising gifts. Or how about the stye in the Easter Bunnie's eye provoking him to paint skulls and scenes of death on kid's easter eggs.

: : Quite frankly if you're really sick of FIRST, get the frig out. We dont need people with negative attitudes here, although I hate to tell anyone to leave FIRST 'cause it's pretty tough to get them in here in the first place. Quit your attempts at bringing the rest of us down.

: : Yknow, In the gaming world we have a name for people who just go to the game forums and badmouth the game that forum was made for: Lamer. You wanna be the first FIRST lamer or do you wanna talk about how things can be improved?

: : -Tate Tickoff
: : "your words leave a sour taste in my mouth"

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Posted by Chris Hibner at 04/12/2001 4:36 PM EST


Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by Patrick Dingle on 04/11/2001 3:29 PM EST:



Well said, Patrick. I used to be the "Devil's Advocate" on these boards until I decided that it tired me out too much. I'm glad Nick came around to take my place. The one sure way to spark a lot of conversation and ideas is to post something controversial. In the end, FIRST is much better for it.

-Chris

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Posted by nick237 at 04/11/2001 4:42 PM EST


Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.


In Reply to: Re: Disapointed in ending.
Posted by Tate Tickoff on 04/11/2001 7:44 AM EST:



Possibly I over reacted about the video but I was the only one who seemed to think that it was in poor taste, and did not hear the apology from Dean.
I some times am critical of FIRST but only because I want it to even better than it is.
As an adult with two children I do the best I can to protect them from distasteful and provocative images and was stuned at the video images shown on stage.
I have been accused of being an old fashioned 20th century fosile but I believe that youngsters today practice what they vision and with all the filth and violence that bombards the young minds of today its evident that some are practicing what the see. The rise in " School shootings " for one.
If there is one thing I have learnt from FIRST is that Honesty and truth is paramount for the success of FIRST
and we are all expected to live by the honor code. Part of the code is being honest in all aspects.
At least I speak my mind, even if its not to everyones likes. I tell it as I see it and I always sign my TRUE NAME.
One thing I have never been accused of is being a spineless, gutless whimp that hides behind a fictitious
team Name and #.
As far as me missusing this forum, I think this forum is exactly what it is, a place to express ones opinions, thoughts and views but if we all agreed with each other then we would be nothing but sheep. I defend and respect your opinions of my post however the need for "expressive" language is not neccesary, possibly you picked it up while viewing one of those video's that your defending as being "not offensive".
Who died and made you in charge of who stays and who should leave........
NICK REYNOLDS


: > This years end to the " 10th " anaversery seemed to
: > be some what of a let down.

: Okay, now I think I've been a rather nice guy since I've joined this magnificent forum, but quite frankly I'm getting tired of your inane chatter, Nick. You remind me of the boil on St. Nicks back making him drop the kids from his lap instead of placing them down gently and promising gifts. Or how about the stye in the Easter Bunnie's eye provoking him to paint skulls and scenes of death on kid's easter eggs.

: Quite frankly if you're really sick of FIRST, get the frig out. We dont need people with negative attitudes here, although I hate to tell anyone to leave FIRST 'cause it's pretty tough to get them in here in the first place. Quit your attempts at bringing the rest of us down.

: Yknow, In the gaming world we have a name for people who just go to the game forums and badmouth the game that forum was made for: Lamer. You wanna be the first FIRST lamer or do you wanna talk about how things can be improved?

: -Tate Tickoff
: "your words leave a sour taste in my mouth"