The Fraud of FTC Worlds - How FTC & FIRST have failed me forever.

[ksafin]

Hi everyone. This is going to be a very long and detailed post, but I urge you to read this in its entirety because I hope it will be very eye-opening as to a subtle but enormous fraud that happened at FTC worlds.

Let me start by prefacing this post with note. I am not a member of FTC Team 5257; I am the founder and an alumi. I love FTC/FIRST dearly, and I came to FTC worlds to support my team and be in the middle of it all once again. I am disclosing the information in this post on my own volition because I feel it needs to be shared. My feelings and what I say are not necessarily representative of the feelings of members of FTC Team 5257 and are solely mine. Therefore, anything in this post is not condoned by the team, but only by myself.

The Story:

This story is regarding FTC Edison Division Semi-Finals match 3. We, ERX, are paired with Cougar Robotics, going against an alliance including Masquerade and Tesla. The record is 1-1, so a third match is forced.
Here is a video of the match, please feel free to forward to the tele-op period at https://youtu.be/5d3UuzGS5Lk?t=301.

Pay attention to Tesla's robot on the bottom left of the field as it manipulates the 90cm goal. Pay special attention to where we, ERX, and Cougars robots are. If you go to 5:20 (https://youtu.be/5d3UuzGS5Lk?t=319) and wait four seconds, you'll see Tesla drop their 90cm goal by moving up their intake.

If you watch till the end of the game and look at the tubes, I think you'll conclude that it's obvious that the red alliance won the match.

Here's where it starts. Our team cheers, excited about the match. I go to the bathroom and come back to see the score posted on the board. 855 - 600, Blue alliance wins.

My mind was boggled. What happened? How could this have happened?
As it turns out, the dropping of the 90cm goal was blamed on the red alliance. We were given a major penalty and the blue alliance was credited with a full 90cm goal.

Did the red alliance drop the goal? No. It's obvious in the footage. Here's where I add the fact that YES, I'm fully aware that video footage and replay is not allowed to be shown to referees to contest a call.

We were aware of this, and despite telling them a wrong call was made, we knew we wouldn't get much out of this.

We appealed to the gracious professionalism in the students from Tesla and Masquerade. We showed all of them the video. They all agreed - the call was wrong. We didn't tip over their goal. They did.

After some haggling, we got them to agree to talk to the referees with us. We went to head ref. Not just ERX. Not just cougars. We all went. All four teams from the match. The entirety of both alliances went to the referees. All four teams said the call was wrong. We weren't even asking for an adjustment of the score. We were asking for a rematch.

The answer? No. Why? My understanding was that it was to save time. They couldn't spare 5 minutes to correct an enormous injustice. They were saving face and saving the tournament five minutes by completely shafting our alliance. We spent 7 months developing this robot and getting to this stage to be shut out for the purpose of saving five minutes.

Not to mention - four teams, opposite alliances, all agreeing on the false call and asking a ref for a rematch? That's an enormous show of gracious professionalism, and I couldn't respect them more for that. It was amazing. And we were told no? Make your own judgement about what degree of ungraciously professional that is.

After we have haggled the head ref in excess of ten times trying to get this correct without avail, we were giving up. They were told to proceed to the other field to set up for division finals. We asked them to protest and refuse to go to the field and set up. They would have to give us a rematch.

I have complete and utter respect for most of the students on those teams. They agreed with us, and didn't want to win the match the way that it was won.

Instead, parents and coaches from the two teams (not all of them, but a sizeable and vocal group) said to forget it, ignore the call, let it happen, and proceed to the finals.

One driver from one of the teams had a "Ask me about my gracious professionalism pin" on his shirt. When his coach told him to ignore what happened and move on, he took it off and put it face down on the tables by the field. I was blown away by this.

In light of all of this injustice, it was the students on the teams that were more mature and just than the adults governing the teams. They could learn a thing or two from the students. That was upsetting to me.

That was the end. We were dealt a huge injustice, challenged it in unison, denied, and then forced out of contention.

I started our FTC team four years ago. I started our FRC team too. We also started another FTC team after our first year. I graduated from High School in love with FIRST, determined to come back every year, support it in every capacity, and do everything I can to start more teams, get more people engaged, and share how wonderful it is.

Something happened at worlds this year for me. FTC failed me. FIRST failed me. People failed me. Gracious professionalism failed me.

The whole system failed me.
Forever.

[smurfgirl]

Unfortunately, it happens. There can be a lot going on at once on the field and refs are human, we can miss things and make mistakes. The rules don't allow video evidence, so there is no way to apply that. If mistakes are recognized, they are generally corrected at regional events, but in my experience, it seems that at the highest levels at the championship, there are no match replays - for "the sake of the show".

All the way back in 2008, my FRC team experienced what I believe was an unfair call on Einstein. I talked to the Head Ref about it and he agreed with my interpretation, but he told me that's just how it goes - they don't do replays on Einstein because it ruins the flow of the show.

I won't tell you that wasn't upsetting to me, because it was, but ultimately it didn't take anything away from what I got out of my experience in FIRST. You just have to move past it. If anything, let your experience inspire you to become a volunteer - it's hard to appreciate everything that goes on behind the scenes until you've been there yourself.

Edit: To be clear, I am not trying to excuse ignoring bad calls that change the outcomes of matches and tournaments. But at this point, I have recognized that I have no power to change the way it's done at the Championship. In my experience at Regionals and Districts, everyone has been quite reasonable in recognizing when a mistake has been made and remedying it.

[mrnoble]

A small group of people, 10? 15? out of tens of thousands around the world, failed to make the right choice in the heat of competition. Not FTC, not FIRST. And not forever.

I sympathize, I really do. My FRC team got dealt some blows over the years, including some that radically altered our chances to win events, and which included bad mistakes by referees, and selfish choices by opposing team members (usually adults). But that is life, actually, and I and the team moved on and have built on our experiences to new levels of success.

I hope you can move on, and that your team can move on, and that they will keep competing. There is no competition in robotics, anywhere, that is immune to such things happening; in fact, this stuff (and much worse) happens everywhere, all the time. But we can't just say "X failed me forever" and quit; eventually we will run out of things to quit from. And FIRST, in spite of its failings, is one of the best things going for our students.

My 2c.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by ksafin

Something happened at worlds this year for me

What happened to you and your team, hearing it from your perspective, sounds unfair. While I understand what you're feeling, I cannot make a judgement here without hearing the other side. However, I hope you consider what I have to say

FTC failed me. FIRST failed me. People failed me. Gracious professionalism failed me.

The whole system failed me.
Forever.

Take a few deep breaths. I know you're pissed, and angry, and upset. Frankly, from what you've said, you likely have a right to be. Sometimes things like this happen, I can't speak of any such personal experience with FIRST but I've experienced being unfairly (at least I thought so) treated.

But I don't believe what you've said above is true. In fact, if anything it's likely why you feel so upset and angry. Your passion, your leadership, enabled all of the students on FTC Team 5257 to get where they are and it's an opportunity that you or they would not have had without FIRST. Just because a few individuals made a wrong call does not mean that you need to give up on the organization and its values as a whole.

In fact, take this passion of yours, remember how you and those students felt, and make positive change.

Go volunteer at FIRST events (and beyond) to make sure that teams (and people) get the correct recognition they deserve. Go mentor, and make sure that when your team sees another that's being treated unfairly, you stand by their side.

You are a leader of your FRC team, and a founder of your FTC team. Whether or not it's obvious, other students may be looking up to you, and a time like this where everyone's hurt and a lot of emotions are flying, it's important to make sure that you lead and act the way you want others to act.

I wish I could offer you a quick and easy answer to help you but only you CAN be the change that you seek.

[pastelpony]

Unfortunately, human error is inevitable. No way around that.

[T^2]

Originally Posted by pastelpony

Unfortunately, human error is inevitable. No way around that.

This is horse manure. The whole point of being an engineer is to overcome the inadequacies of nature, particularly human nature. In this case, the people in charge of the match made an error, were given a chance to fix that error, and willfully ignored that chance. That is wrong. To not try to correct one's mistakes is the mark of an immoral creature.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by T^2

This is horse manure. The whole point of being an engineer is to overcome the inadequacies of nature, particularly human nature. In this case, the people in charge of the match made an error, were given a chance to fix that error, and willfully ignored that chance. That is wrong. To not try to correct one's mistakes is the mark of an immoral creature.

Manure? Hmm, it's also stinky to insult someone without knowing all the facts. We have one side of the story. Mistakes happen. How you handle a situation like this says more about you than those who caused it.

[mjames31]

Originally Posted by T^2

The whole point of being an engineer is to overcome the inadequacies of nature, particularly human nature.

I feel like in order to this, FIRST should allow video coverage to be reviewed, just like in baseball and football. Indeed, cameras can see many things the human eye cannot, and with the 2 match limit for arguing, one would hardly have time to fabricate anything fake.

[saikiranra]

It seems like the overarching problem is teams not being able to question scores they received, whether in FRC or FTC. Every season there is some controversy about a bad call or a score miscount, and I don't know if any measures have been taken to mitigate this problem. FLL makes students check their scores before they are submitted and it seems like a viable solution for FRC/FTC.

Referees are volunteers who take time out of their lives to help with this competition, and I don't think it is fair for them when they get called out later on with match video on a public platform for a bad call they made with good intentions. Some sort of process in which teams can check the scores and penalties before they are finalized or can retroactively modify them with some proof (even if it's only in place during playoffs/elims) would be beneficial for all parties.

[Pretzel]

Originally Posted by saikiranra

Referees are volunteers who take time out of their lives to help with this competition, and I don't think it is fair for them when they get called out later on with match video on a public platform for a bad call they made with good intentions. Some sort of process in which teams can check the scores and penalties before they are finalized or can retroactively modify them with some proof (even if it's only in place during playoffs/elims) would be beneficial for all parties.

Then allow referees to review match video during the elimination matches. It would save a lot of headaches without adding too much time since disputes like this are usually far and few between.

I can understand disallowing video replays for qualification matches so that events can be run in a timely manner, but in any sort of elimination match the scores and calls really count. As such, it's only appropriate to allow video evidence to be shown to ensure the proper call was made.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by saikiranra

Referees are volunteers who take time out of their lives to help with this competition, and I don't think it is fair for them when they get called out later on with match video on a public platform for a bad call they made with good intentions. Some sort of process in which teams can check the scores and penalties before they are finalized or can retroactively modify them with some proof (even if it's only in place during playoffs/elims) would be beneficial for all parties.

Im sorry, but even as a volunteer, when you sign up to be a referee you know the position you are getting into will have huge consequences and responsibilities. Everyone always says we shouldnt criticize them because they are a volunteer, but they chose to be in that position.

[BethMo]

I referee for FTC at Washington league events and state championship. It's standard procedure here to go over the scoresheet with the teams at the end of each match and have a representative from each alliance initial it. I'm really glad that we do this -- at least once per event a student has spotted something that we mis-scored.

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by dodar

Im sorry, but even as a volunteer, when you sign up to be a referee you know the position you are getting into will have huge consequences and responsibilities. Everyone always says we shouldnt criticize them because they are a volunteer, but they chose to be in that position.

A few years ago i was on the youth baseball / softball league board of directors and on duty one Saturday morning. The referee for a girls softball game did not show, so my options were to referee the game, or to cancel it. I was not a referee, especially for girls softball. So i told the parents and the crowd that i was not a referee, and i would do what i could, and if any of them wanted to take my place they were welcome to come on to the field. If not, i asked them to sit back and enjoy the game. The game went well and no one questioned my calls.

My point is, you have no idea why that referee is in that position. Maybe they were a late recruit so the games could go on, maybe they volunteered to be an inspector and got recruited for refereeing, maybe they are a veteran. Until you have been in that position yourself, give them some slack.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

A few years ago i was on the youth baseball / softball league board of directors and on duty one Saturday morning. The referee for a girls softball game did not show, so my options were to referee the game, or to cancel it. I was not a referee, especially for girls softball. So i told the parents and the crowd that i was not a referee, and i would do what i could, and if any of them wanted to take my place they were welcome to come on to the field. If not, i asked them to sit back and enjoy the game. The game went well and no one questioned my calls.

My point is, you have no idea why that referee is in that position. Maybe they were a late recruit so the games could go on, maybe they volunteered to be an inspector and got recruited for refereeing, maybe they are a veteran. Until you have been in that position yourself, give them some slack.

I understand giving slack, but my point still stands. The choice was/is still made full knowing the responsibilities held by being a referee.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by dodar

I understand giving slack, but my point still stands. The choice was/is still made full knowing the responsibilities held by being a referee.

Would you prefer that even fewer people accept that responsibility because of wanton criticism of their decisions?