FRC team crisis - any suggestions?

[DaveL]

A simple email or face to face discussion that starts with: "I'm very happy that even with the loss of our previous lead mentors, the team will continue with new leadership. I appreciate that you are willing to step up to the plate! I saw the new schedule for this year and I see that it is very different compared to previous years. I'm curious to discuss why some things are changing so that I can better understand your point of view on things and would like to contribute in any way I can to help make sure this team stays healthy, vibrant and continues to serve students long into the future."

John's quote is really well written. I would use these words and a non-negative attitude to start your discussion.

The top issue that I see with your team is cooperative decision making.

I would recommend defining the decisions the students should make.
Then get acceptance from your Coach.
Next, have an open discussion about what your team believes will make a successful season, then discuss the Coach's availability and any other issues that might limit your desired season activities.

Once you know where you want to go and what are the potential roadblocks, the team can then start to brainstorm ways to work within these limitations.

After you iron out the high level issues, then you can approach the more detailed issues; like how to educate the team. It took my team some time to decide hands-on-training is the only way to keep the students interested.

Instead of a lecture, I now wait for that moment during a build session when a mechanism is being constructed to ask, how fast should something rotate? Then we can have a discussion about torque and transmission ratios.

Dave
Build Mentor

[evanperryg]

The biggest problem I see in your original post, OP, is that the culture Z has created is not sustainable for FRC. (which I'm sure you already know) I'm sure his use of a syllabus and a core curriculum is an effort to make robotics more like a class in school. In some ways, this could be beneficial as it provides a more structured learning environment. However, how many students are going to sign up for another class outside of their normal school day, if it wasn't required? I know I wouldn't. In a later post, you also mentioned that your team is no longer involved in many recruitment events. Emphasize to Z that these events are how your team gets new members, so they are essential to your team's future.

The most important part of winning a civilized argument is understanding the perspective of your opposition. Read into Z's decisions, apply your understanding of him as a leader and as a person, and try to figure out his motivations for all these changes. In particular, I'd be interested to see if his changes have some relationship to the fact that he has a daughter on the team. In doing this, you will be more prepared to counter any argument he makes, and you will also be able to enter the argument with a more moderate position that will lead to a faster, more favorable outcome. As you approach him, I'd suggest you encourage Z to analyze how his changes will affect the team years from now. Although it is best to approach any argument in a moderate stance, don't be afraid to become more aggressive if he simply will not make any concessions. Leveraging the school district's authority is a last resort move that, although it could result in a low-effort solution, would likely be time-consuming and result in a lot of unnecessary drama.

Sorry if it seems like I'm beating a dead horse, but approaching situations like this requires one to be well-prepared. I hope that my post will help.

[DonShaw]

This is why we are a student run team and not adult run team assuming your team coach is an adult.

Without know the dynamics of your team and if it school sponsored or what really hard to point you in the right direction.

In my past seven years of involvement I still get disgusted when I see adults taking over the team. It is my own personal opinion that adults should not be allowed on drive teams (only in special case/need by need) and should only advise.

If a school sponsored team speak to the admin.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Just remember that he is almost certainly doing what he thinks is best for the team. You both have the same goal, you just need him to come around to your plan for getting there.

It is possible that Z's plan is better (perhaps in some ways, but maybe not all) and you should go into conversations with an open mind and be willing to be convinced that your preconceived notions on some issues may be wrong or there are two options, neither of which is 'wrong.' Because if Z comes to the same discussion feeling he just needs to get you to come around to his plan, it won't end well. If you expect him to be willing to change, you need to be willing to change also. Teams change, and they aren't always run the same way year after year. Sometimes change turns out well, some time change turns out to be a learning experience.

[Steven Smith]

It is possible that Z's plan is better (perhaps in some ways, but maybe not all) and you should go into conversations with an open mind and be willing to be convinced that your preconceived notions on some issues may be wrong or there are two options, neither of which is 'wrong.' Because if Z comes to the same discussion feeling he just needs to get you to come around to his plan, it won't end well. If you expect him to be willing to change, you need to be willing to change also. Teams change, and they aren't always run the same way year after year. Sometimes change turns out well, some time change turns out to be a learning experience.

"Fit is a funny thing. Many objects can fit together, if they are compliant enough. If you expect two rigid objects to fit, even the most subtle differences will interfere." - Discussion with my boss a few days about about suitability for a new role

Generally in FRC, we already have a lot of similarities to fall back on that help us "fit" together. As a mentor, I recognize that most other mentors are people that are passionate about technology, student education, volunteerism, etc. We might have differences in opinion on the best way to run a team, inspire students, educate students, spend money, etc... but we are more alike than different.

So, I'm not to try to cast you or Coach Z as right or wrong in the matter, but from a practical point of speaking... I echo the sentiments about keeping an open mind regarding the new mentor's priorities while clearly communicating what elements of the schedule/priority change affect your personal enjoyment of the program.

Any of the discussions regarding going over their head, forcing someone out, building a group of people that are in agreement with your direction instead of theirs, etc. are things that are generally considered last resort in a professional setting... and certainly not before at least attempting direct communication with the person. If you go in with an honest attempt to hear Coach Z out and don't feel like your input is heard, or don't get a better explanation for the change in direction, then you can take a different path. Try to have that honest conversation to understand them first.

[EricH]

I would definitely have a discussion with Z.

What he needs to know: Because of these changes, a lot of the team members are seriously considering leaving the team. More specifically, the changes being made apparently without team input, and without reasons being given. (Note: You're going to need to be a lot more tactful about how you state this, at least initially. I'm cutting to the chase here, which generally means I overdo it on being blunt.) Because of that, you have certain questions, if he can provide answers. See next paragraph.

What you need to learn from Z: In addition to the reasons behind the changes (one possible reason is: he just doesn't have the time), is there anything that he doesn't know, and needs to know? And, what help does he need? It could very well be that the cutback is because he just can't handle it all on his own; it could also be that someone higher up his chain of command is putting pressure on him. The #1 biggest thing to ask is, what help do you need? Leading the team without help... not easy.




Now, for the rest of y'all, there is one thing that is really, really, really bothering me.

Originally Posted by OP

This year, our CAD coach decided to take over (no one agreed to that) and self-proclaimed himself as the lead mentor and coach of the team.[...] During the summer, he...fired some mentors.[...]Business and media, which contained most of the sponsorship and outreach, are now gone. We no longer have any team bonding events.

(I'm not going to go into the rest; I would regard these as having some of the most direct effect on the team, and hashing these out will improve the rest.)

Folks, I don't know how y'all's teams would react if someone (let's just say you) saw a leadership vacuum at the top and filled that with no input at all--particularly if the school administration is supposed to be hiring the coach (also in the OP). I really don't know how y'all's teams would react if other mentors were "kicked out" (whether or not they actually left voluntarily, I'll leave an open question here). But losing the business side of a team generally ends up losing the team a few years down the line! And if the team isn't well-bonded before the season, let's just say that having the "storming" phase right about Week 3 or Week 4 isn't exactly conducive to doing well in the competition. I'm pretty sure y'all can see where I'm coming from here--if these are in fact occasioned by one person, that one person is running a severe risk of destroying the team in a few years, and probably doesn't even realize it.

Because of those little details, I would say that rather than a one-on-one, the above discussion would need to be an "all-hands" meeting, with some parents included. For one thing, it reduces "telephone" effects. For another, everybody gets to see the reasons/effects/etc--I do include anybody on Z's side here. And, IDEALLY, someone in a (supportive) school administration is in the background observing--not participating, just observing. (And you don't tell them what the meeting is about ahead of time, just "we're having a team meeting at such-and-such a time, we'd appreciate it if you were there".)


One final note: FIRST Robotics Competition teams are, in many ways, simulations of engineering businesses. Welcome to the real world.

[supernoodle]

Originally Posted by EricH

What he needs to know: Because of these changes, a lot of the team members are seriously considering leaving the team. More specifically, the changes being made apparently without team input, and without reasons being given.

What you need to learn from Z: In addition to the reasons behind the changes (one possible reason is: he just doesn't have the time), is there anything that he doesn't know, and needs to know? And, what help does he need? It could very well be that the cutback is because he just can't handle it all on his own; it could also be that someone higher up his chain of command is putting pressure on him. The #1 biggest thing to ask is, what help do you need? Leading the team without help... not easy.


Folks, I don't know how y'all's teams would react if someone (let's just say you) saw a leadership vacuum at the top and filled that with no input at all--particularly if the school administration is supposed to be hiring the coach (also in the OP). I really don't know how y'all's teams would react if other mentors were "kicked out" (whether or not they actually left voluntarily, I'll leave an open question here). But losing the business side of a team generally ends up losing the team a few years down the line! And if the team isn't well-bonded before the season, let's just say that having the "storming" phase right about Week 3 or Week 4 isn't exactly conducive to doing well in the competition. I'm pretty sure y'all can see where I'm coming from here--if these are in fact occasioned by one person, that one person is running a severe risk of destroying the team in a few years, and probably doesn't even realize it.

Because of those little details, I would say that rather than a one-on-one, the above discussion would need to be an "all-hands" meeting, with some parents included. For one thing, it reduces "telephone" effects. For another, everybody gets to see the reasons/effects/etc--I do include anybody on Z's side here. And, IDEALLY, someone in a (supportive) school administration is in the background observing--not participating, just observing. (And you don't tell them what the meeting is about ahead of time, just "we're having a team meeting at such-and-such a time, we'd appreciate it if you were there".)


One final note: FIRST Robotics Competition teams are, in many ways, simulations of engineering businesses. Welcome to the real world.

Definitely will remember to add those key points. Of course, I am not completely aware of his situation, so I want to know his story behind his actions. Thanks a lot.

[supernoodle]

Thank you all for your inputs so far. I have an update from today: we are planning to meet up with Coach Z in a Robotics meeting sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Also, here are some of my thoughts:

Our team is in a serious crisis. After hearing about the new syllabus and the "curriculum" part of our team, most of the members have lost enthusiasm and have decided to focus on another activity as well as Robotics. Many potential team members have decided not to join as a result. We used to host some FIRST events, also attending several community outreach events. As soon as Coach Z took power, we quit all of them. I won't quite believe that it was for the goodness of the team...and I also refuse to believe that it was the best choice.

Here is what I believe why Coach Z initiated some of the things he initiated. A lot of times last year, the team strayed from the mission for each meeting. Some people who had nothing to do distracted others and goofed around. Coach Z was in the CAD room, which was a little more remote from the other rooms, and always locked his door shut. Out of all the mentors, he had to be the one that we didn't really talk to. (hermit) A big thing last year was that Rookies weren't learning and doing as much as they could have done. In our programming section, we finished everything exactly on time and as planned, and didn't goof around too much. Other subteams didn't fare too well. However, I believe his solution is a bit too extreme.

That is why I believe that Coach Z is sucking out ALL the fun out of Robotics this year.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by supernoodle

I won't quite believe that it was for the goodness of the team...and I also refuse to believe that it was the best choice.

If you hope to have a productive conversation with Coach Z then you are going to need to change this attitude. You don't have all of the information of the situation and it sounds like weren't involved in any of the discussions that led to this decision.
Suggesting that the decision was not made for the goodness of the team will immediately discredit you if you were talking to me about an issue like this.

Here is what I believe why Coach Z initiated some of the things he initiated. . . .

This is why it is critical that you ask him his reasoning. If your speculation is wrong and you try to bring that into the conversation I don't think it will go well for you.

That is why I believe that Coach Z is sucking out ALL the fun out of Robotics this year. He is not very relatable and doesn't have the very appealing personality. If I had to say, he was more of a control freak. I feel like he is a very slothy coach as of now.

It sounds like you have a pretty low opinion of him as is. The tough part is that sometimes you will have people that you don't like as your leader in life. But he IS your leader. And the best thing for the team is for the student leadership (presumably you and some others) and him to be aligned on what the goals of the team are. And that requires the mature meeting we suggested. Just hoping that he leaves eventually won't help your team in the long run.

[Alex Webber]

My advice- get a few other members of your team, spend a lot of time making a case, and present it to your administration. Let me know if you have questions, but get all your facts together, problems that have occurred, and anything else.

[BenGuy]

I'm sure this has been said already, but I say go through with the plan, but maybe first try to convince coach Z to at least explain his long term plan and how cutting budget, ect. will help achieve that. But you can't force him to be reasonable, and if you need to, you are not only encouraged to but obligated to remove Coach Z from power, and the best way to do that is to go through the administration.

(Probably overkill, but Wikipedia agrees with me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution)

[Monochron]

get a few other members of your team, spend a lot of time making a case, and present it to your administration.

But you can't force him to be reasonable, and if you need to, you are not only encouraged to but obligated to remove Coach Z from power, and the best way to do that is to go through the administration.

In the interest of using this site to give you good guidance supernoodle, I feel like I should say that the above are bad advice.
When you have a dispute with how an organization or business is being run, you need to settle that dispute. Speak with the person you are having the dispute with. Have a mature discussion and do not go behind his back. Doing the above is an unprofessional way to handle this situation. I understand that that is much harder to directly confront the person who is causing the problem but often the right way to do things is the harder way.

Frankly, the administration may not even listen to your side of the story until you have tried to resolve it with your Coach.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Frankly, the administration may not even listen to your side of the story until you have tried to resolve it with your Coach.

I think this is probably the most true thing here: If you haven't at least tried to talk it over, the administration's likely response is going to be along the lines of "work it out" or "so quit" or something similar.

But if you have tried to work it out, and failed, then you have a much stronger case. THEN you can go to the administration and say "I tried to work this [lousy situation] out with the coach, thus and such happened, I don't think this team will survive the year because [insert reasons here], is there anything you can do to keep this team alive and representing the school?"

--Keep some notes at the meeting. That way the next time this comes up, you can refer to them and say "well, the last time this happened, the team did this, that, and the other, and as a result we changed these things but not these things and this is what resulted from THAT." Or maybe you bring them with you on any trips to administration--take notes there, too, if you do end up going that route.

[BenGuy]

Originally Posted by Monochron

In the interest of using this site to give you good guidance supernoodle, I feel like I should say that the above are bad advice.
When you have a dispute with how an organization or business is being run, you need to settle that dispute. Speak with the person you are having the dispute with. Have a mature discussion and do not go behind his back. Doing the above is an unprofessional way to handle this situation. I understand that that is much harder to directly confront the person who is causing the problem but often the right way to do things is the harder way.

Frankly, the administration may not even listen to your side of the story until you have tried to resolve it with your Coach.

That was literally what I first suggested, ask him to explain where his changes will lead the team... having a discussion was the first step in my advice...

[LTGLambChops]

From what it sounds like, I would simply get everyone on the team that doesn't like the way things are running and either sit down with the coach and explain that things are not sounding the greatest and you happen to have some ideas you would like to interpret for the variation of people since everyone likes to do something different. If this doesn't work with coach Z's schedule, go talk to another team about it locally to help get students trained on their respective topics. Coach Z will become very confused after some time, but simply sit down with another teacher at your school who might be interested in the club and tell them what Coach Z has been doing simply asking for help from the teacher. Getting training from another team will be helpful and open up for collaboration from that team once season starts.

I hope this helps!