New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants

[Oblarg]

While we're discussing hex shaft and the like, one product I really would like to see from FRC suppliers are clamping hubs. They're a very simple solution to most of the problems of positioning things on shafts, and allow you to use simple round shaft, to boot.

[tim-tim]

Disclaimer: Off the OP's original topic...

As Greg stated it is often not in the best interest for companies to keep an inventory year round.

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

... To add to the issue, nobody wants inventory at the end of the season because after April any inventory will most likely not sell again until the next year. That inventory is "money sitting on a shelf." If funds are wrapped up, that is less money we can spend on other things like R&D, tooling for new products, travel to support events, etc. While not good for the teams, from a straight business case it is better to sell out than overshoot.
...
It is a really hard problem, that is worse for small suppliers but we will keep trying to improve and always appreciate your support.

This being known, I recommend teams to buy some commonly used parts, materials, etc prior to the season starting. Sure you don't know what the game will have in store, but you will have a starting point. If you guessed wrong or over bought of something particular, it will most likely be usable in the following game or R&D effort by the team. The caution to this is to not try and build up an inventory of everything, and definitely not in one year. We have strategically phased into using hex shaft, box tubing, and others over the past few seasons. This approach was taken to use up the existing "inventory" of material and slowly build up the new "inventory" and design/fabrication practices.

TL;DR For a team, unused inventory is still good for future uses. For companies, unsold inventory is an added cost and potentially causes operational restrictions.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by tim-tim

Disclaimer: Off the OP's original topic...

As Greg stated it is often not in the best interest for companies to keep an inventory year round.


This being known, I recommend teams to buy some commonly used parts, materials, etc prior to the season starting. Sure you don't know what the game will have in store, but you will have a starting point. If you guessed wrong or over bought of something particular, it will most likely be usable in the following game or R&D effort by the team. The caution to this is to not try and build up an inventory of everything, and definitely not in one year. We have strategically phased into using hex shaft, box tubing, and others over the past few seasons. This approach was taken to use up the existing "inventory" of material and slowly build up the new "inventory" and design/fabrication practices.

TL;DR For a team, unused inventory is still good for future uses. For companies, unsold inventory is an added cost and potentially causes operational restrictions.

We do try to stock up as best as possible, but are faced with budgetary limits that prevent us from having everything we want. Some items we simply have to risk build season wait times. It also doesn't help that some vendors don't restock certain items until the December/January time frame. Based on that, we often chose to stock up on inventory we know we can replenish if we need a higher than expected quantity. If we run out of hex items in the middle of build, we may be backed into a corner. If we run out of round shaft, we know we can order them from anywhere.

[tim-tim]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

We try to do stock up as best as possible, but are faced with budgetary limits that prevent us from having everything we want. Some items we simply have to risk build season wait times. It also doesn't help that some vendors don't restock certain items until the December/January time frame. Based on that, we often chose to stock up on inventory we know we can replenish if we need a higher than expected quantity. If we run out of hex items in the middle of build, we may be backed into a corner. If we run out of round shaft, we know we can order them from anywhere.

Agreed on the budgetary constraints. We don't have enough money to throw it around on whatever we see, but at the same, we are not frugal. I had a conversation at champs a few years back (forget who it was with), but they said something that really stuck with me; paraphrase:

If we think we will need something in build season, we buy it. If we don't end up using it, maybe it will come in handy for another project in the future.

We have not followed this 100%, but have adopted a very similar process. Usually place orders two to three times a week (most end up being small $$$ orders) to help mitigate the risk of parts being out of stock when we "finalize" a design.

Last year I started a reserve, or rainy day fund equivalent, for certain mechanical parts to include hex shaft, certain fasteners, etc. The items I withheld were not accounted for on any team "inventory". My reserve consisted of two 3' 1/2" hex shafts, a handful of 1/2" bearings, two boxes of common rivet sizes, and a variety of hubs. Definitely not enough to build an entire robot with, but a good amount of things to use in an emergency (weekend repairs, out of stock, etc). This is something you have to build up to, much like reserve funding that an organization may or may not have.

I understand and agree with your points, but wanted to share how we have implemented mitigation strategies.

[mrnoble]

We've chosen to stock up on motor controllers, thunder hex, bearings, and square tubing, since we know we will use all of those things. We will purchase gear boxes as soon as we know the game, and the rest when we work out the details, if anything is still available by then; otherwise, we will compromise or make it ourselves.

I have no beef with the suppliers over things running out. They all do a better job of serving their customers than almost any businesses I've ever worked with. The companies we purchase this stuff from love high school robotics, and they go way beyond to not only try to get us what we need, but to develop new and better products very quickly. FRC has gotten so much more advanced, so quickly, and I think it's awesome. That's why I'm excited to see the new stuff soon!

[Rachel Lim]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Thunderhex is out of stock, and hex products in general have a nasty habit of going out of stock during build season.

Not every team has a lathe (or a lathe they trust to make precision cuts).

West Coast Products has then in stock for 18" and backordered for 3'. I'm not sure what shipping would be like though.

[Ingar]

I'd love a 3.25" Vex Traction Wheel with the adaptable widths. Would be super useful. http://www.vexrobotics.com/traction-wheels.html

[Everett33]

Originally Posted by Rachel Lim

West Coast Products has then in stock for 18" and backordered for 3'. I'm not sure what shipping would be like though.

Therobotspace.com has both 18" and 3' Thunderhex in stock. I just picked up some yesterday, plus some other VexPro parts.

[Rob Stehlik]

Originally Posted by Cory

Why aren't you using Thunderhex? It's a no brainer.

Or turn down the ends of your existing hex instead of using hex bearings.

I didn't really take Thunderhex seriously last year because every time I checked, the bearings were out of stock. I'm not a fan of proprietary sized bearings because they are only available from a single supplier. I usually order from FRC suppliers because they tend to be cheaper, but in a pinch, I like being able to get bearings from a local industrial supplier.

But I don't see what the obsession with hex is all about. What's wrong with a nice round keyed shaft?

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Rob Stehlik

But I don't see what the obsession with hex is all about. What's wrong with a nice round keyed shaft?

You don't have to deal with cutting keys, putting keys into the keyway, or worry about the key falling out. With hex you put it in the bearing and you're done.

[cad321]

It wouldn't be a new product per say but I'd love to see vexpro start carrying the navx board. For canadian teams it's a lot cheap ordering from vex due to shipping and the currency exchange.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Rob Stehlik

But I don't see what the obsession with hex is all about. What's wrong with a nice round keyed shaft?

The obsession with hex is because round keyed stock is completely inferior in every way (except perhaps availability).

Strength (massive stress risers)
Ease of use...no keys to lose during installation. No struggling to get the key in/out of the keyway on either mating part. No need to cut keys.
Torque transmission (which goes into strength)
The list goes on and on.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Cory

The obsession with hex is because round keyed stock is completely inferior in every way (except perhaps availability).

Strength (massive stress risers)
Ease of use...no keys to lose during installation. No struggling to get the key in/out of the keyway on either mating part. No need to cut keys.
Torque transmission (which goes into strength)
The list goes on and on.

It's true! It's all true! I was against hex for a while but I have to say, I've been converted.

[jman4747]

Originally Posted by Cory

The obsession with hex is because round keyed stock is completely inferior in every way (except perhaps availability).

Strength (massive stress risers)
Ease of use...no keys to lose during installation. No struggling to get the key in/out of the keyway on either mating part. No need to cut keys.
Torque transmission (which goes into strength)
The list goes on and on.

Well outside of FRC and just so students who might be mechanical engineers one day know, round shaft has its perks.

1. Round shaft is available in any material that can be put on a lathe

2. Round shaft, depending on how it's machined, will hold tighter tolerances than hex shaft which can be unbelievably important in various real world applications

3. Machining internal features for round shaft is (depending on the tolerances required) easier, faster, more precise, and cheaper than for hex

Round shaft is not "completely inferior in every way" to hex. Hex shaft is easier to use and commonly meets the needs of most FRC applications but when your're in the real world there are times when you may need something else.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by jman4747

Round shaft is not "completely inferior in every way" to hex. Hex shaft is easier to use and commonly meets the needs of most FRC applications but when your're in the real world there are times when you may need something else.

We're not in the real world. This discussion is clearly about FRC and there really can be no debate that for FRC hex is a superior product.