I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K

[archiver]

Posted by Ken Leung at 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST


College Student on team West Coast FIRST-a-holic Anonymous from University of California, Berkeley.



I will no longer be doing FIRST with a team this coming year. Sorry if the title is a little misdirecting. ;-)

During the three years in this competition, I¡¦ve had the privilege of working with some of the best students and adults in the Gunn Robotics Team #192. Because of GRT and every single member of that team, I grew up from a quiet stupid kid who doesn¡¦t know and doesn¡¦t care about the world around him into the person I am today. I am extremely grateful for the chance GRT gave me to learn through the FIRST competition, and I thank them for that. The 2001 competition is the best year I have in this competition because I was able to spend it with GRT 2001.

However, the experience with GRT 2001 is also the reason why I am determined to quit that team. I am able to decide my path of life (as of now) because of that experience.

Well, turns out maintaining a relationship with a team far away is harder than I thought. Second semester of college started and I began my life of going back and forth between Berkeley and Palo Alto (home town) through 3 hours of public transportation with a 30 lbs bag. Because of classes and schoolwork, I had to miss 4 days of production per week. Instead of a regular member I became an advisor who concentrate on teaching the students tools operation I learned. Although I was working closely with students, deep inside my heart I knew there are distances between us. I made friends with many of the students, but the bonding was never close. This is more apparent when competition came, because I pulled myself out of the pit so that others can learn. Even though I as cheering with the team, I felt more like an outsider because of being driver and pit crew at 2001. I ended up spending more time with other teams than with GRT at the competition¡K

Working with the team took a lot of my school time, which I could¡¦ve used to take full advantage of Berkeley, or meet different students from all over the country. I didn¡¦t do too well in school this semester, and I even feared that I would be kicked out (which I can only blame myself for this, but still¡K). I took an impact academically because I was so dedicated with the team during competition. The amount of stress also caused a health problem so serious that I don¡¦t want to risk it again¡K

As much as I want to work in a well-organized machine shop doing the same thing all over again, I would rather face unknown challenges with different people at different place. I realized that I should make room for new comers, instead of spoiling myself in a comfortable place. I felt the need of meeting other people and going to different places, to experience FIRST in a bigger sense. Posting on this forum and meeting other people at National gave a boost to these feelings; the trip to kick off let me see the big picture of what FIRST do¡K I¡¦ve grown up to a point where I feel that experience and knowledge I gain from the team and this forum can be used in a greater level, instead of being advices to one single team. I want to make a differences in a bigger circle, I want to meet different teams and share their view of FIRST, I want to help FIRST do what it¡¦s doing to the students, I want to grow up¡K

When I told my team that I am going to kick myself out, they half joked about how I don¡¦t need to grow up. I was laughing with them at the time, but deep inside I didn¡¦t like that comment. Do they see me as not capable of growing up? Do they doubt that I actually have a wish of being someone better? I know my team is only joking about it, but it triggered my wish to go away. Where I am going to I don¡¦t know. I just need a hard stop to cut myself out, so I already took all my tools back from the shop, and after this post I am going to restrict myself from going in there randomly sorting tools for them (what I used to do when I was still deeply attached)¡K

I understand all these feelings came from the fact that people at my age tends to search for their place in society, and their way of life before they become adults; that I need to prove myself in a bigger crowd and need to do something more challenging. But what¡¦s wrong with that? I am simply following the process. I see FIRST as a step stone on my journey to becoming who I want to be, not the goal of life¡K

WELL¡K with all that said¡K I still have to admit that I enjoyed the 2001 competition with GRT very much! I sound so negative above because I have to vent something off my chest and sort through my mind. This year is a unique experience that I will always remember and benefit from. In case any GRT member read this, which I doubt, I hope that you don¡¦t feel offended because of what I said. GRT made me the person I am today, and I can¡¦t thank GRT enough for that¡K

Good Bye, Team 192 with the red hairs¡K

I know that FIRST-a-holic¡¦s like myself are going to continue their FIRST experience despite all the negativity from this post, so I am not worry that this message will be discouraging people from following their heart¡K

[archiver]

Posted by ChrisH at 05/25/2001 11:40 AM EST


Engineer on team #330, Beach 'Bots, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA JPL, J & F Machine, Raytheon, et al.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:



Ken,

I've enjoyed your comments on this forum very much and I hope you continue to participate here at least. But it is true that change comes no matter how we try to stop it. Now is time for a new chapter in your life.

Go ahead and plunge into Berkley. Learn everything they can teach you, even if it means you can't participate on a team for a while. When you come back you'll be a better advisor for it.

Just remember you won't be student next time and that will feel different, and that's OK.

I hope you can find another team and I hope your professors are as understanding as mine were. I also nearly got kicked out of engineering school because of all the time and effort I was spending on extracurricular projects. Fortunately my advisor decided I was probably learning more of what I needed by making my own mistakes and let me go until senior project time. Then I was in real demand because I could actually do things and make things work, unlike many of my classmates who didn't have such experience but did have better GPAs.

One thought. Take pictures of everything you build or are involved in that's not just paper. Put them into a nice album and take it with you for job interviews. Use it much as an artist would a portfolio. If your potential employer doesn't see your usefulness after that then you probably don't want to work there anyway.

Chris Husmann, PE
Team 330 the BeachBots

To everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under Heaven ... The Preacher

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson at 05/25/2001 12:29 PM EST


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Re: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by ChrisH on 05/25/2001 11:40 AM EST:



Ken,

As much as I love having you in FIRST and having you on these forums, I encourage you to keep your grades up.

Right now, going to school should take top priority. This is the time in your life that society has given you to dive deep into learning. Take advantage of it -- it only gets more difficult if you try to do it at a later time.

As to your grades, I often say that they are like money in the bank. For the rest of your life, people will be (unfairly) judging you by your undergrad GPA. You can rail against the unfairness of it or you can accept that life is unfair and that you may as well get the most out of the unfair system.

You will never have such low hanging fruit that is so easy to pick. Going from a B to an A or a B from a C is about the easiest way to give yourself a raise you will ever have in your life. Frankly, school is not that hard compared to living life on the outside.

But I digress...

...Ken, you're a great person. I expect great things from you whereever you end up. Go where you feel you are led. I respect your judgement.

Regards,

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Matt Leese at 05/26/2001 11:45 PM EST


College Student on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Fiber Technologies & RIT.


In Reply to: Keep your GPA up
Posted by Joe Johnson on 05/25/2001 12:29 PM EST:



The being permanently judged by your GPA comes as a suprise to me. The general consensus I've heard (and this also comes from the Dean of Engineering of RIT) is that after your first job (no pun there GPA no longer matters. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that however.

Matt who did well 1st and 2nd quarter but is a bit worried about his 3rd quarter grades that he hasn't gotten yet....

[archiver]

Posted by Chris Hibner at 05/29/2001 4:26 PM EST


Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.


In Reply to: Re: Keep your GPA up
Posted by Matt Leese on 05/26/2001 11:45 PM EST:



: The being permanently judged by your GPA comes as a suprise to me. The general consensus I've heard (and this also comes from the Dean of Engineering of RIT) is that after your first job (no pun there GPA no longer matters. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that however.

This is pretty much true for employment (but there are exceptions). However, if you want to go graduate school, your undergrad GPA is very important. This will be true every time you apply for graduate school (if you want to go back more than once to get various degrees) - not just the first time.

-Chris

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson at 05/29/2001 9:57 PM EST


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Re: Keep your GPA up
Posted by Chris Hibner on 05/29/2001 4:26 PM EST:



Believe it or not, some folks even consider GPA when judging between those being considered for promotions.

Bottom line: Undergrad GPA is part of your employment record. It may not be the best way to break ties between otherwise equally talented applicants, but in fact at times it is.

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Matt Reiland at 05/30/2001 7:49 PM EST


Engineer on team #226 from Troy, Troy Athens and General Motors CRW.


In Reply to: Re: Keep your GPA up
Posted by Matt Leese on 05/26/2001 11:45 PM EST:



Hey Matt,

At GM I have seen many managers look over the transcripts pretty hard for new employment, it isn't always for the employees first job either, many times college grads go out and don't get the big dream job they wanted and get a stepping-stone job for a few years. Some of the best help you have is a letter of recomendation from a professor that teaches a class you enjoy (it will show in your classwork), if your resume is being looked over by someone who feels grades are very important (I personally don't because I know plenty of B and C type people who have the all important street smarts not just the ability to score well on tests) they will probably also factor in that a professor has given you his/her approval which can go a long way.

Study hard in school but still have fun, I can't tell you how many times I miss some of the times I had in College now that I am in the 'real world'

Matt, who wonders how his grades are...... NOT
but they do want me to get another degree, I just have to get the energy to study again

[archiver]

Posted by Lora Knepper at 05/25/2001 2:49 PM EST


Other on team #177, Bobcat Robotics - Adoptee, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:



Ken ~

I'm proud to consider you one of my best friends, and I know that you will succeed - and am fairly certain that I'll still see you in the FIRST community..you've been bitten by that bug as much as the rest of us ) I also understand what it's like to outgrow your high school team, though I admire you for the journey you made to stay with them this year. GRT was lucky to have you, as you were lucky to have them. Good luck at Berkeley, I know you will be a great engineer soon )

If you ever need a break, you can come visit me at RIT next year in the snow )

~ lora

PS - Ken, please don't give me another panic attack like the subject of your post did ;o)

[archiver]

Posted by Carrie at 05/25/2001 3:30 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from OSMTech Academy and Textron.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:




Good Luck Ken!
The FIRST community will truely miss you!
~~~~~Carrie


: I will no longer be doing FIRST with a team this coming year. Sorry if the title is a little misdirecting. ;-)

: During the three years in this competition, I¡¦ve had the privilege of working with some of the best students and adults in the Gunn Robotics Team #192. Because of GRT and every single member of that team, I grew up from a quiet stupid kid who doesn¡¦t know and doesn¡¦t care about the world around him into the person I am today. I am extremely grateful for the chance GRT gave me to learn through the FIRST competition, and I thank them for that. The 2001 competition is the best year I have in this competition because I was able to spend it with GRT 2001.

: However, the experience with GRT 2001 is also the reason why I am determined to quit that team. I am able to decide my path of life (as of now) because of that experience.

: Well, turns out maintaining a relationship with a team far away is harder than I thought. Second semester of college started and I began my life of going back and forth between Berkeley and Palo Alto (home town) through 3 hours of public transportation with a 30 lbs bag. Because of classes and schoolwork, I had to miss 4 days of production per week. Instead of a regular member I became an advisor who concentrate on teaching the students tools operation I learned. Although I was working closely with students, deep inside my heart I knew there are distances between us. I made friends with many of the students, but the bonding was never close. This is more apparent when competition came, because I pulled myself out of the pit so that others can learn. Even though I as cheering with the team, I felt more like an outsider because of being driver and pit crew at 2001. I ended up spending more time with other teams than with GRT at the competition¡K

: Working with the team took a lot of my school time, which I could¡¦ve used to take full advantage of Berkeley, or meet different students from all over the country. I didn¡¦t do too well in school this semester, and I even feared that I would be kicked out (which I can only blame myself for this, but still¡K). I took an impact academically because I was so dedicated with the team during competition. The amount of stress also caused a health problem so serious that I don¡¦t want to risk it again¡K

: As much as I want to work in a well-organized machine shop doing the same thing all over again, I would rather face unknown challenges with different people at different place. I realized that I should make room for new comers, instead of spoiling myself in a comfortable place. I felt the need of meeting other people and going to different places, to experience FIRST in a bigger sense. Posting on this forum and meeting other people at National gave a boost to these feelings; the trip to kick off let me see the big picture of what FIRST do¡K I¡¦ve grown up to a point where I feel that experience and knowledge I gain from the team and this forum can be used in a greater level, instead of being advices to one single team. I want to make a differences in a bigger circle, I want to meet different teams and share their view of FIRST, I want to help FIRST do what it¡¦s doing to the students, I want to grow up¡K

: When I told my team that I am going to kick myself out, they half joked about how I don¡¦t need to grow up. I was laughing with them at the time, but deep inside I didn¡¦t like that comment. Do they see me as not capable of growing up? Do they doubt that I actually have a wish of being someone better? I know my team is only joking about it, but it triggered my wish to go away. Where I am going to I don¡¦t know. I just need a hard stop to cut myself out, so I already took all my tools back from the shop, and after this post I am going to restrict myself from going in there randomly sorting tools for them (what I used to do when I was still deeply attached)¡K

: I understand all these feelings came from the fact that people at my age tends to search for their place in society, and their way of life before they become adults; that I need to prove myself in a bigger crowd and need to do something more challenging. But what¡¦s wrong with that? I am simply following the process. I see FIRST as a step stone on my journey to becoming who I want to be, not the goal of life¡K

: WELL¡K with all that said¡K I still have to admit that I enjoyed the 2001 competition with GRT very much! I sound so negative above because I have to vent something off my chest and sort through my mind. This year is a unique experience that I will always remember and benefit from. In case any GRT member read this, which I doubt, I hope that you don¡¦t feel offended because of what I said. GRT made me the person I am today, and I can¡¦t thank GRT enough for that¡K

: Good Bye, Team 192 with the red hairs¡K

: I know that FIRST-a-holic¡¦s like myself are going to continue their FIRST experience despite all the negativity from this post, so I am not worry that this message will be discouraging people from following their heart¡K

[archiver]

Posted by Andy Baker at 05/25/2001 3:59 PM EST


Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:



Ken, it's been fun to get to know you over the year.

From kicking back at Jillian's during the kickoff, to the LA Regional, to Nationals, I always looked forward to seeing you.

You will be missed. But, please come back.

Once you get your grades and settle down with a good engineering job, I'm sure that you'll shift into the mode of being an excellent mentor to students. Hopefully, it will be within the FIRST organization... but even if it's not, come visit the rest of us sometime.

Your friend,
Andy B.

[archiver]

Posted by Ben Mitchell at 05/25/2001 10:28 PM EST


Student on team #303, Vulgens Heroes, from Bridgewater-Raritan HS and Bihler.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:




You may not remember me, but we worked a bit on creating a database of robots for Florida. Our pit areas were right across the hall from each other, and We may have met once, but the times then were very busy, not to mention chaotic. Much of Florida is a blur in my mind, at least.

I wish you the best of luck in your future, Ken. Reading your post made me once again realize how far one can go with FIRST robotics. I went from "so...this is high school...now what?" to creating databases, modeling drive trains with LEGOS Mindstorms. FIRST Robotics has changed my life, and with the drive, the energy, and the dream, that I know you posess, you will succeed. You're correct in saying that FIRST is all about growing up, and moving on. The world needs Free Thinkers, and folks like you help fill that vaccuum.

Taking a break from Robotics is'nt alarming at the least. From what I've seen you do down in Florida, and those hectic days before it, I'm sure you make a fine mentor wthin a few years, and won't have the academic responsibilities to back you into a corner.

Relax, take it easy, You'll do fine. FIRST will still be there when you get back. We promise.

Best O' Luck!
---Ben Mitchell
Team 303

[archiver]

Posted by Ben Mitchell at 05/25/2001 10:28 PM EST


Student on team #303, Vulgens Heroes, from Bridgewater-Raritan HS and Bihler.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:




You may not remember me, but we worked a bit on creating a database of robots for Florida. Our pit areas were right across the hall from each other, and We may have met once, but the times then were very busy, not to mention chaotic. Much of Florida is a blur in my mind, at least.

I wish you the best of luck in your future, Ken. Reading your post made me once again realize how far one can go with FIRST robotics. I went from "so...this is high school...now what?" to creating databases, modeling drive trains with LEGOS Mindstorms. FIRST Robotics has changed my life, and with the drive, the energy, and the dream, that I know you posess, you will succeed. You're correct in saying that FIRST is all about growing up, and moving on. The world needs Free Thinkers, and folks like you help fill that vaccuum.

Taking a break from Robotics is'nt alarming at the least. From what I've seen you do down in Florida, and those hectic days before it, I'm sure you make a fine mentor wthin a few years, and won't have the academic responsibilities to back you into a corner.

Relax, take it easy, You'll do fine. FIRST will still be there when you get back. We promise.

Best O' Luck!
---Ben Mitchell
Team 303

[archiver]

Posted by Erin at 05/27/2001 9:31 AM EST


College Student on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: I will no longer be doing FIRST¡K
Posted by Ken Leung on 05/25/2001 11:18 AM EST:



After three years with FIRST- Two representing Team 1 as a high school student (2000 as captain) and one year representing the awesome Huskie Brigade (Team 65) as a college advisor, I am outta here.

I saw my report card from the end of the winter semester and realized that FIRST doesn't do for me in college what it did in high school. But then again, I had professors who took off a whole grade for one absence...

I will be working all through the fall and winter so that I can afford to move to Long Beach, CA and attend Brooks College. It's not a four year university like most FIRST students go into, but rather a college that offers specialized classes for exactly what I want to do (Graphic/ Web Design) and then puts you into an internship at some really large and well-known companies.

I love FIRST, but I think that it is time I focus on the things that will make it easier for me to start a FIRST team of my own in a few years, and the things that will give me direction in life.

This past year has been phenominal- it was my first year with a team that didn't have huge wins, but still had a great amount of prestige and honor. For a long time, I thought that those qualities only came with teams that won repeatedly. But I have learned that those qualities come when a group of people is put together and they happen to be some of the best young people and they try very hard at everything they do. And it was awesome because not only did we come from one of the most awesome high schools in the state (2001 Class A basketball state champions, Student Council *Star* Award for best overall Student Council), have one of the most awesome sponsors, have one of the best looking robots in the competition, but we were also one of the top 5 teams overall (along with the other 2 Pontiac teams (47 and 1)- we brought much pride into Pontiac).

I will miss everyone, from everyone I have met posting here to people I met just by chance in the pits- to people from my local area of Oakland County to my Robot Chicks, from the former Rambots to the former Red Haired drivers, from engineers on teams all over the country to engineers on my own (if it wasn't for Ken Patton I wouldn't be here today), good luck in the years ahead. I will still be hanging around this website randomly, if I'm not too old of a fogie to figure out it's new setup.

-Erin