GRIZZLY TOOLS

[SciBorg Dave]

We are in the process of building a high school robotics lab(rookie team 5920). We are looking at buying a lathe, mill, band saw and some other tools for the lab. My question to the FIRST community are there any teams using Grizzly products and how do you like them? The price is of some importance.

[Greg Needel]

My team has some grizzly tools and I have used many in the past. They are for sure the budget brand of industrial equipment.

Here are a couple of things to think about when buying any tool.

* there is no brand of tool where every tool is great. You need to look at each tool independently based on your needs and use case.

*The only thing that a brand will tell you is about the support for the products that you will receive.

*If you are not experienced or an expert in using the tools you are considering (specifically for mills, lathes, etc) you need to consult with someone who knows more than you do. Chiefdelphi is a good place for this, but a local resource might be better.

*Used equipment is both a blessing and curse - you can find some very high quality good deals on older used equipment. You also won't get much (or any) of a guarantee with any of it so if it does break you are probably on your own to figure it out (another reason to find a local expert)

*tooling can cost as much or more than the machine - get good tooling, it makes a huge difference. There are some ways to get cheap tooling, like calling machine shops and asking for donations or any re-grinds they are going to get rid of.

* Since you mentioned rookie team, I recommend you get through this season before you make any decisions. The lead time to get equipment up and running is not insignificant and you have a big challenge coming up in a week. It is not the time to try and setup and learn a new tool.


Good luck! We are all here to help, and I am sure some others will chime in with their opinions also.


Greg

[MichaelBick]

In addition to what Greg said, Grizzly doesn't have great support if you break one of their tools. That said, you will probably have the same issue with many used machines.

[sanddrag]

We have two grizzly bandsaws, one vertical and one horizontal. We're happy enough with them, but as the previous poster mentioned, the particular model is important. Which ones are you looking at and what is your budget?

Originally Posted by MichaelBick

In addition to what Greg said, Grizzly doesn't have great support if you break one of their tools.

Are you speaking from a first-hand experience trying to get support from them? I've read many accounts on the contrary.

[SciBorg Dave]

The 4 major tools the team is look at.
G9742 Band saw
G0621x Vertical band saw
G4000 Lathe
G0759 Mill
We have been give a large grant to change a home economics room to a robotics lab. The grant will need to provide for a complete redesign. That being said we could spend $10-$15,000 on needed equipment. We will be taking out 3 of the 4 stoves in the room so 220 volts is available. We hope to complete the project for the beginning of the 2016 school year.
We are a high school of 84 students in eastern Washington state. We are a FFA team well supported by the high school administration and teachers. Grizzly has a location in Washington state and we like supporting local. We would like them to become a supporter of FIRST.
We also understand our rookie season starts 1 week from today. We have been installing a supply of Vex pro build materials. So our most pressing need would be the band saw.

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Are you speaking from a first-hand experience trying to get support from them? I've read many accounts on the contrary.

Our g4003g lathe was down for around 6 months while we were waiting for a replacement gib. Luckily it was not during build season. No issues though with our g0704 mill, but it gets a lot less use now that we have a full size knee mill.

[snoman]

We just ordered this http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-X-...-and-DRO/G0796 will let you know how it goes.

[SciBorg Dave]

Originally Posted by snoman

We just ordered this http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-X-...-and-DRO/G0796 will let you know how it goes.

Your input will be a great help Thanks

[sanddrag]

We had the G9742 horizontal bandsaw in service for about 3 years before retiring it. The real limiting factor was the 3/8 blade. We installed a good starret blade and flood coolant, which made it almost like a whole new saw, and after a while we got it dialed in to cut dead nuts straight. But, it was a bit of a project to get it cutting well. Over its life, we cut A LOT of thick bar stock on the thing, but we did break A LOT of blades (even good ones), caught the motor on fire (yes, with actual flames), and broke the power switch. We swapped out the motor with a much better one from Harbor Freight, and replaced the power switch, and the saw still cuts fine but it has quite a vibration and it feels like the worm gear is just about completely worn out. Also, the G9742 auto-shutoff at the bottom of the cut never worked properly. Impossible to adjust into a working position. We upgraded to the G9743 and haven't looked back. It's a night and day difference. And other than the new one splashing coolant on the floor, we really like it.

On the vertical bandsaw you selected, are you sure you have 3-phase power in the room? Most washers/dryers are single phase.

For welding, we've been very happy with our Miller Diversion 165, though it can be a little under powered if welding 1/4" aluminum plate on a cold day. It will handle 1/8 all day long without a problem. I've done 1/4 steel on it too and while it works, it's a little slow. The 180 is available for a little more dough. We have the Elite Classic series helmets which have worked well. We've had good experiences purchasing through Cyberweld.

Don't underestimate the need for and expense of things like workbenches, tables, toolboxes, computers, chairs, bits, blades, consumables etc, etc. It all can really add up. The Same Club Seville Classics workbench is a good value. We own 10 of them. On toolboxes, the Harbor Freight 44" 13-drawer is hands down the best quality and value.

[philso]

Good training and only allowing the equipment to be used by those who have the training and who show they don't abuse the equipment might delay the onset of "campification".

Originally Posted by sanddrag

... We swapped out the motor with a much better one from Harbor Freight ...

I never thought that I would see those words together

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by philso

Good training and only allowing the equipment to be used by those who have the training and who show they don't abuse the equipment might delay the onset of "campification".

We need an FRC-specific term.

"robotification"?

[SciBorg Dave]

We are also buying a TIG weld any ideas out there ?
This is funded by the Palouse high school FFA alumni, a separate grant.
Our hope is for our small community (1050 population) to be a destination robot lab for our small area and other future teams.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by SciBorg Dave

We are also buying a TIG weld any ideas out there ?
This is funded by the Palouse high school FFA alumni, a separate grant.
Our hope is for our small community (1050 population) to be a destination robot lab for our small area and other future teams.

Before you go any further I think laying out the experience level of the team could really help. Again remember that there is a week until Build begins, and if you depend on having welding/milling/turning available during the six weeks and something doesn't pan out you'll be left with a disappointing robot.

[EricH]

At this point, I would rate your tool needs as:

1) Chop saw--could use a horizontal bandsaw instead, but a chop saw is easier to use/maintain.
2) Hand drills (emphasis on plural)
3) Plenty of drill bits
4) Other hand tools (hex keys, screwdrivers, files, stuff like that).

Unless, of course, you already have those.

Future: Everything else. Right now, you do NOT have the time to learn the more complicated items. Call that "after build season", unless you absolutely have to spend the money right now right now. If you do, you should stow the items safely until they're needed (read: after build season).

And when you do expand, I would put the order as:
1) Drill press
2) Bandsaw
3) Welder
4a) Lathe
4b) Mill

There's some debate as to whether a mill or lathe is better; I lean towards lathe. Drill press and bandsaw are easier to learn, though, and faster to set up; they come first. The welder has more utility as far as fabricating frames and supports.

I have no experience with Grizzly tools myself that I'm aware of, so I can't comment on that brand. For a mill, though, if you can get a Bridgeport, do it.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by EricH

At this point, I would rate your tool needs as:

1) Chop saw--could use a horizontal bandsaw instead, but a chop saw is easier to use/maintain.
2) Hand drills (emphasis on plural)
3) Plenty of drill bits
4) Other hand tools (hex keys, screwdrivers, files, stuff like that).

Unless, of course, you already have those.

Future: Everything else. Right now, you do NOT have the time to learn the more complicated items. Call that "after build season", unless you absolutely have to spend the money right now right now. If you do, you should stow the items safely until they're needed (read: after build season).

And when you do expand, I would put the order as:
1) Drill press
2) Bandsaw
3) Welder
4a) Lathe
4b) Mill

There's some debate as to whether a mill or lathe is better; I lean towards lathe. Drill press and bandsaw are easier to learn, though, and faster to set up; they come first. The welder has more utility as far as fabricating frames and supports.

I have no experience with Grizzly tools myself that I'm aware of, so I can't comment on that brand. For a mill, though, if you can get a Bridgeport, do it.

Now that EricH did it, I will expand further:

1. Chop-Saw - I would get an Evolution Rage2 Cold Saw (with a replacement blade). A horse of a machine and it cuts everything. At least everything that we have thrown at it.

2. Drills - Milwaukee M18 Drill and Driver Combo. We now have a few of these sets and they are incredible. I have never had problems with Milwaukee - and their customer service reviews are impeccable.

3. Drill Bits. Get a lot and buy in bulk from a local welding supplier. 1/8", 3/16" 1/4", 3/8" in bulk (6-12 each). You will also want to purchase a few 1/2". Also purchase 3/4", 1", and 1.25" if the budget allows.
*
Get a 1.125" stepper bit from Automation Direct for free - see your FRC TIMS account for info (pay $6 for shipping) - this is a life saver if you have a great vice and drill press - or a mill. And then a #7 jobber bit for tapping 1/4-20.

4. Hand tools - Get a full set of ratchets.
For box wrenches, Gearwrench is suffice. Get a full set of SAE and Metric. And then purchase a few more 11mm and 7/16" wrenches.
Get a grip of Allen/Hex tools.
And couple sets of screwdrivers.
Files. Get a good set from Nicholson. Not kidding.


Once your team is settled -
-Drill Press (we have 2 JETs, 2 Deltas, and 1 Toolshop)
-Bandsaw (We have a Rockport)
-Lathe (so many to choose from)
-Mill (Bridgeport if you can)

That is all for now...