FIRST 2016 Game Manual Mistakes

[Cal578]

Originally Posted by Bochek

... All of the drawings and pictures are in a correct state for the start of a match.

Figures 2-1 and 2-2 show opposite things, so they can't both be correct for the start of the match. Figs 2-1, 2-23, 2-24 show a reg flag on the tower near the red secret passage, which I believe is correct for start of match. Figs 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 2-22, and 2-36 show a blue flag near the red secret passage, and red flag near the blue secret passage, which would only be correct if both towers have been captured.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally Posted by Cal578

Figures 2-1 and 2-2 show opposite things, so they can't both be correct for the start of the match. Figs 2-1, 2-23, 2-24 show a reg flag on the tower near the red secret passage, which I believe is correct for start of match. Figs 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 2-22, and 2-36 show a blue flag near the red secret passage, and red flag near the blue secret passage, which would only be correct if both towers have been captured.

Bochek is correct. Note that each figure that shows flag colors different from their corresponding Secret Passages are TOP views. From this perspective, you only see the flags that are in the DOWN position - the flags that are raised do not appear (or they only appear as a black line, i.e. the top edge of the raised flag)

[Purpose]

It's not quite a mistake, but the manual uses the phrase "undamaged defense" which is extremely vague, and the definition of "undamaged" is never given. Undamaged could be interpreted to mean crossed once, or crossed twice.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Purpose

It's not quite a mistake, but the manual uses the phrase "undamaged defense" which is extremely vague, and the definition of "undamaged" is never given. Undamaged could be interpreted to mean crossed once, or crossed twice.

If an opposing alliances Defense is legally crossed twice by the attacking alliance, it would then be in an "all lights out state" and therefore, by the existing rules of the game, be considered to exist in a "Damaged" state.

Any time before that state a particular Defense would be in an "Undamaged" state. Further: All 10 Defenses in the FIRST FRC 2016 game Stronghold begin in an "undamaged" state. Alliance Robots will attempt to "damage" them by passing over the Defenses at least twice each to "Damage" the opposing alliances Defenses & after at least 4 Defenses on any one side of the field are Damaged, the Defenses on that side will be considered "Breached". Upon the achieving the state of "Defenses Breached" the attacking/breaching alliance will be rewarded 1 Ranking Point during qualifying matches or 20 points during Playoffs. (Both Alliances will seek to each achieve the Defenses Breached state and earn those coveted Ranking Points/Points).

Does that make a bit more sense now?

Note: Just remember none of us here on CD are the GDC or the FIRST FRC
Official Q & A, so if you have questions needing answers, or FRC Game Manual errors to report (and the posters are correct as some of the figures are incorrect it appears as reported here in this thread).....Then post those questions and make those reports to the Q & A as soon as it opens please. We discuss here, but the deciders/correctors are found elsewhere.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Purpose

It's not quite a mistake, but the manual uses the phrase "undamaged defense" which is extremely vague, and the definition of "undamaged" is never given. Undamaged could be interpreted to mean crossed once, or crossed twice.

To shorten up my last post: An "undamaged" Defense would be either uncrossed or crossed once. If crossed twice it would be "Damaged".

(Unless of course it was crossed twice by the same robot in the Auto Period, since you can only score a single crossing with a single robot in auto, a second crossing of any Defense will not score any further points accrued concerning that particular robot and any of the Defense units/items/structures).

It does not mean you cannot cross them again, just do not expect the crossing to score points or cause damage or actions to them.

_______________________
The real question needing Q & A answered.

Can a Team make the decision to start "their boulder loaded robot" in the Spybot Position for Auto, shoot and score, turn their robot and cross a Defense from Courtyard area to Neutral Zone direction (does that crossing now also score), then carefully pluck another boulder off the Midline (without entering the volume above the midline of course, which would/could draw a foul), load the boulder, return across any Defense shoot and score said boulder? If the robot were to get completely into the neutral zone...Would the first crossing to the neutral zone, or the second crossing back to the courtyard be the crossing that scores...or any of the crossings of the Defense in that particular listed scenario.

Another question to add to the above scenario: What if said robot after the second Auto Boulder shot returned to the Neutral Zone and approached the OUTERWORKS area and ended the Auto Period with their front or rear robot bumper in the proper 2 point scoring area.....Would they also be rewarded the appropriate 2 points for the APPROACH in Auto.

(32 Points?)

So many Auto scoring variables/possibilities on that same tilt:

Start in the Neutral Area/Boulder loaded, cross straight across a Defense scoring 10, Shoot Boulder High scoring 10, reverse path across same defense 0 score, end in proper Approach position 2=Total score 22 Points?

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Cal578

Figures 2-1 and 2-2 show opposite things, so they can't both be correct for the start of the match. Figs 2-1, 2-23, 2-24 show a reg flag on the tower near the red secret passage, which I believe is correct for start of match. Figs 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 2-22, and 2-36 show a blue flag near the red secret passage, and red flag near the blue secret passage, which would only be correct if both towers have been captured.

___________________________________

The 2016Fieldassembly-enc.pdf First Diagram (Plan Sheet FE-00039), shows the field All BLUE Elements on the Left Side, All RED Element on the Right side (Flag, Standards, and Secret Passage), as do the Official Field Tour Videos.

Rules like G20 and many others, can only make any sense IF Red Secret Passage is attached to the Red Courtyard 7 the Red Castle. (G20 Highlight mine).

G20 ROBOTS may only enter or exit their opponent’s SECRET PASSAGE from/to the opponent’s COURTYARD. A ROBOT is considered to be within the SECRET PASSAGE once the only carpet the ROBOT is in contact with is the carpet inside the SECRET PASSAGE. Violation: FOUL. If repeated, TECH FOUL

[StephenNutt]

Originally Posted by Paul Mace

dibblec: Yours is the definitive answer. Figs 1-1 and 2-1 are correct--the other illustrations are, well...misleading at best. The videos of the actual game field setup clearly show red alliance, red lights, red castle and red secret passage on one end and blue on the other. This also stands to reason from a game play and traditional design pattern--your human player is alongside your drive team.

See Figure 2-22, which clarifies everything.

Our team decided these confusing figures were showing the oppositions flags laying down, with the alliance flag being vertice and not visible - but plain wrong is always a reasonable explanation!

[Cal578]

I stand corrected. The figures that are plan view (from straight above) would show the flag that is down, and the perspective view figures would show the raised flag, so I agree that they are all correct (for start of game).

[Orthofort]

Originally Posted by dibblec

When looking at the fields in the manuals, the flags are opposite of what they are in the field tour videos here .

In the manual figure 2-1 is correct, the red flag is on the red alliance with the red secret passage, however, figures 2-2, 2-3, 2-4 and others the red and blue flags are on the opposite side of their alliance. It had some of our students confused at first until using figure 2-1 and compared that to the field tour videos.

If you look at them as being captured, then they are correct.

Just to add on to this, it looks like it is Figures 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 2-22, and 2-36 which have the flags reversed. I'm guessing they just just screwed up on one and copied the same image for the others, since all the figures are just variations on the same picture, since all of the other figures which contain different images are correct.

[Brad Hanel]

Originally Posted by bvisness

I already answered this at your other thread, but this is NOT an error because the "depth" in the manual is referring to the distance across the moat.

I feel as though calling "depth" anything but the "deepness" when referring to a body of water is a little confusing.

[VampireFairy97]

yeah, it's correct in the images, while in the written paragraph above is stated as 2ft.

[Caleb Sykes]

2.2.2.2 SECRET PASSAGE
A SECRET PASSAGE is a rectangular lane in front of each HUMAN PLAYER STATION. As introduced
in Section 2.1 Zones & Markings, each ALLIANCE has a SECRET PASSAGE; an infinitely tall, 4 ft.
5-1/2 in. wide, 23 ft. 11-1/2 in. deep volume defined by BERMS, the GUARDRAIL and the CASTLE
WALL.
The SECRET PASSAGE includes the BERMS, but does not include the GUARDRAIL or CASTLE
WALL. BERMS the steel barrier, 1 in. tall and 3 in. wide that defines the border of the SECRET
PASSAGE.

Emphasis mine.

If I understand BERMS correctly, they are not verbs.

[aldaeron]

There appears to be a conflict in the material on some field pieces

Cheval de Frise

Manual Page 6 (PDF Page 12) says "The Cheval de Frise is a series of four (4) independently tilting, weighted HDPE platforms."

Drawing GE-16028 lists the material as "Material: Clear Polycarb, .5" Thick"

This could be a big difference depending on wheel material!

The field video does not mention the material of the C de F

Drawbridge

Manual Page 7 (PDF Page 13) says "The Drawbridge is an arched gateway with a door that lowers toward the NEUTRAL ZONE. The door is made from polycarbonate and is 37 in. tall and ¼ in. thick."

Drawing GE-16172 lists the material as "Material: Clear Polycarbonate, .125 Thick"

The field video says these are polycarb, but does not say the thickness

Q&A where are you?! We need to order some plastic and test our wheels. I remember in 2012 that a lot of "very sticky" wheels did not like the bridges

-matto-

[Hallry]

There appears to be an undeleted note at the end of the definition of SCALE:

SCALE - an act performed by a ROBOT, such that at the conclusion of the MATCH, it is fully supported by the TOWER, is in contact with at least one RUNG, and has all of its BUMPERS fully above the height of the low GOALS. (update in manual and fix “at least one RUNG”)

Emphasis mine.

[Robosparks2926]

Originally Posted by AMendenhall

Page 15 of the 2016 Game Manual:
"The Rough Terrain is constructed from thirty (31) pieces..."
Pretty sure there are 31 pieces on the rough terrain.

possibly