So what happened at the FIRST forum

[Todd Derbyshire]

Basically I was just wondering what was discussed at the FIRST forums today. And if there was any hints at what might be presented to us in the future.

[Ashley Weed]

Ohh! Ohh! ME too! Someone feel free to share the wisdom!

[Bill Gold]

I'll post my notes from the San Jose Forum later tonight or tomorrow (hopefully). I need a little time to organize my chicken scratch

[Ashley Weed]

Any word on decisions for qualifying for Nationals in 2003? Are they keeping the same 5 point system? Can you carry over points from previous years? Thanks!

[Bill Gold]

There was no discussion about changing the qualifying or even/odd way of getting into the Championship for 2003 at the San Jose Forum.

imho, it wouldn't be fair at all to odd teams for FIRST to get away from the even/odd system this year. Odd teams would probably feel screwed if FIRST changed the system for 2003. I'm sure FIRST knows this and will stick with that system for at least this upcoming season.

[Ashley Weed]

very true, but what about odd teams who qualified this year. Will even teams be able to qualify in the same way for the 2003 games? Any discussion on changing the qualifying for even numbered teams during an odd year's game (2003)!

[Mike Soukup]

No news because I didn't go, but it's about time the forums got back to a discussion about something that matters.

Mike

[ahecht]

I was in Manchester, and they didn't say there would be any changes to the qualification system, although there was talk of having two Nationals in the future, either two at Epcot or one on the East Coast and one on the West. Both were pie in the sky ideas, but the FIRST people seemed receptive.

These are the notes that I took:

The game will be simpler next year, with no abstract concepts that could cause confusion (such as this past year's entanglement issue). That said, there will be absolutly no rule changes after the kickoff. There is a dedicated game developement team this year, and they started planning the game way in advance so that there is plenty of time to trouble shoot.

The game will be 2 on 2 again, and it was hinted that the playing field itself will be different from last year. They said that they have tried to make the game more TV and spectator friendly, but they also promised that last year.

In a change from last year, FIRST will no longer accept credit cards for shipping -- teams must provide a FedEx or UPS account number.

The 2003 kickoff will be held January 4th, and this year there will be 12-14 remote kickoffs. The remotes may also have workshops at them. The list of sites hasn't been made yet, but places that had a remote kickoff last this year will probably have one again. My suggestion that the Kickoff be held later in the day so West Coast teams don't need to get up at 5:00am was well received.

There will be a total of 22 regionals next year, and a complete schedule will be posted on the FIRST website within the next 10 days or so.

The kit of parts will be very different this year, in that some of it will be shipped out to teams as soon as payment is received (as early as October). The preseason kit of parts will contain software packages, instructional materials, and, most exitingly, EduRobot. EduRobot is the prototyping kit that was used at the Rookie Workshop this year, and is being provided to all teams on an exparimental basis thanks to an anonymous donor. The EduRobot (EduRobotics.com) kit includes a miniature version of the robot controller with built in wireless modem, operator interface, motors with built in speed controllers, erector set parts, connectors, wheels, etc. The robot controller on the EduRobot is the Issac16, which can do everything the FIRST controller can, except it has less motor outputs and sensor inputs.

Other changes to the kit of parts includes better battery chargers, which means 4 amps or higher. The Chiaphua motors will also be obtained directly from Chiaphua, not Atwood, and may contain a more standard output shaft.

The manual will be in three parts, with the administrative part being given out in mid-December.

The Yahoo message board will be gone, and replaced with another outsourced board. They felt that a vBulletin system like this one would be too time consuming to maintain, but they said that the new boards would probably be ad free.

There was some discussion that some pneumatics parts may not be available, but the idea that veteran teams might not get a compressor was met with strong opposition.

The idea was also thrown out there that all teams would be responsible for providing a volunteer to do robot inspection, since the students often know more about the rules than the volunteers do. There would still be official oversight, and an appeals process.

Since Small Parts can no longer handle the load of ~650 FIRST teams, FIRST is working out a deal with "a large supplier with distribution centers all over the US and Canada" to provide a special catalogue of discounted approved parts. They wouldn't name the company, but my first guess would be McMaster Carr.

The IFI controller will be essentially the same. There was no word on whether we will see new controllers that are T1k compliant or whether obsolete team numbers will be reassigned.

FedEx will probably donate shipping, but FIRST will be much more strict about not replacing lost airbills. They will no longer accept handwritten ones. Also, teams are strongly discouraged from shipping robots cross-town -- these complementary airbills are only for teams that cannot drive to the drayage site.

Due to the skull cracking incident, FIRST has been notified by their insurance company that they are no longer allowed to have music, dancing, or fun (just kidding ) at the team parties. This was not FIRST's decision, it was the insurance companies. The parties will be shorter, and "any entertainment or activities will be targeted to decompressing the students." Everything from skill competitions to jugglers and talent shows were proposed, but the Team Party (which is now officially called the Team Social) will not resemble those of the rescent past.

There may be four new awards at regionals this year. The first, which is almost a sure thing, is the Regional Animation award. It is not yet decided if winning this will be required to will the national animation award. There will also probably be a Web Site Award. Two other awards were brought up, but all that they have are the names, not definitions. Apparently, a "higher power" suggested the names, but nothing more. These two awards are the Resourcefullness Award and the Communication Award. Many ideas were thrown out as to what these may mean, but nothing was concrete at all.

The judging of awards may also be different this year. It was proposed that all non-technical awards be peer-judged, either using a ballot the way the Play-of-the-Day award does, or using a panel of representatives from each team.

The discussion then went into griping about nationals, but all suggestions were met with "we'll talk to Disney, but don't forget the 7 figure village they build for us."

[sanddrag]

They have heard our cries!!! Just goes to show you they read the FIRST Robotics Wish List thread on this site. So, keep posting your wishes there. Most of this news is really great, thanks for the inside scoop.

A west coast national would rock!!

I'm all for no abstract concepts like triple the losers score. I don't think anyone really fully understood the game this past season.
I interpret "More spectator friendly" as more battle and obstacles.

Jan. 4 for ickoff, can't wait!!! I'm west coast and a later kickoff time would be good so we could capture the whole thing awake.

The EduRobot looks good but if I used it I would get too caught up in making that work that I would lose track of the real project. Good for new members though.

I'm all for better Chiaphuas and battery chargers. I love those Chiaphuas but not their armature output shaft.

Getting some kit and manual stuff early is a good thing to get the ball rolling.

The new industrial supplier idea is great. Small Parts was rapidly turning into Small Inventory. [hope]I hope it's McMaster Carr. [/hope]

They do need a vBulletin or comparable forum. Brandon keeps this one maintained so there's no reason they can't do the same.

We have never used pneumatics before and I would kind of like to based on what I've seen this past year.

The different playing field is great too [hope] Bi-level field [/hope]

Last, I'm cool with the new controller, we could use the smaller size and less cables.

[Ian W.]

all great news, except for the team party (Boo insurance companies). in florida, we actually had more accidents after the team party...(don't get me into that story)

i wonder how next year's playing field will be. i hope it's more interesting than last years :/

[Nate Smith]

2002 Season Overview
-Rules will be fewer, clearer, and stuck to - one of the writers of the FLL rules is being recruited to help in this.
-There was mention of a game review group...not much detail was given on this, but I assume those who are included know a lot more than what was said...

-As was mentioned in the previous summary, they are already well into the 2003 game...so far, it is designed to be made for tv with quite simple scoring

-All of the Fedex/UPS account info was the same, so I'll leave that alone...

Important Dates:
Kickoff-January 4
Epcot May 1-3
22 total regionals - schedule will be made available in 1-2 weeks

-Significant changes coming in the kit
-4A or better charger assured
-Preseason kit will be shipped when your payment is recieved(no earlier than October 15)...includes the software and the EduRobot.

-Most likely will still be 2v2....
-Event schedule for an individual event will remain
-National qualification will remain the same, with just the needed changes for the regional chairman's award

Web Site Issues:
-was mentioned current site is hard to navigate
-need to make info to contact individual teams easier to get to
-site needs to be kept up to date
-flag new/updated information

-was suggested that mfg. part number is included on the pre-kickoff field component parts list - makes it easier to get parts from other suppliers

Q&A/Yahoo Board
-One main "voice" needed
-Overwhelming support to overhaul Q&A methods
-Perhaps keep a Running list on web site?
-set up question submission form which requires topic of question and rule or section which it applies to
-possibly expand phone availability hours, maybe just during last week?

CD/Manual
-consensus was that CD was very useful
-provide 2 sets of prints for field
-maybe a 3d model of field?
-add capability to search manual as a whole
-make sure motor data is accurate
-include control system manual/software tools on CD

Inspections
-possibly get team members to perform inspection
-minimize what is being looked for
-spot checks as going on/off field
-re-weigh before finals
-specialize inspectors(mech/elec/pneu)

-Some power-related issues with control system
-Impact tripping of breaker
-standardize connectors across all IFI components
-possibly internally connect or pre-supply connectors for Victor fan
-what about an IFI-supplied valve driver(diodes, etc. pre-built)?

Autodesk
-better training needed
-judging improvements needed
-what about using other software?
-what about getting a site license?
-have an animation viewing location at all sites

Carpet Damage
-looking at possible alternate surfaces, however, carpet is liked for various reasons
-was suggested limit materials which could contact ground (i.e. no metal)

Pneumatics
-add rodless cylinder
-more flexability in what could be used - team sponsors want to be able to use their own brand
-more valves
-check valve specifically suggested

-it was suggested that more in the way of prefab components(gearboxes, etc.) be allowed...much discussion on this, no clear consensus

Shipping
-Fedex overwhelming a good thing
-many issues with drayage, esp. at Epcot

-There will be a mandatory review of contact information during registration this year
-event registration will be staggered as follows:
*Sep 3 - open to update contact data only
*Oct 1 - open to register for 1st regional and championship(if qualified)
*Nov 3 - 2nd regional and beyond
* Dec 6 - registration closes
*Dec 10 - 1st event payment due
*Feb 14 - final payment due
Regionals between Mar 4 - Apr 12

There was a lot more discussed, but this is what I had jotted down as being important...

[sanddrag]

What is a rodless pneumatic cylinder? Also, I don't know about the prefab gearboxes. We had much trouble making one with the chias and drills combined but I think prefab mechanisms would take away from the whole idea and experience FIRST is trying to portray.

[Ashley Weed]

Originally posted by Nate Smith
-National qualification will remain the same, with just the needed changes for the regional chairman's award

w00t!!! Nats 2003 here I come!!!!

[Chris Nowak]

REGIONAL ANIMATION AWARD!!!!!!!!!!
I can't contain my excitement!
This absolutely rocks!

[Ian W.]

ugh, i don't like one more thing i heard. if they keep pushing nats back, it will be during APs, and that will extremely screw over many people. i say that if they're gona push nats back anymore, they need to jump back to after APs, for two reasons.

1) No crazed students taking 4 or 5 APs, who are also very important to the team, goign insane at nats because of the study/work load.

2) Makes everyone's lives who take APs much easier. instead of worrying about APs at nats, you just relax and purge your mind of all unimportant information .

the other idea is to push nats forward somemore, but i don't know how that would work. of course, the last idea is for the stupid college board to push APs back, but they've monopolized the industry, so they dont' give a @#$!$@#$!$@#$!$@#$!$ to other people's needs. so dean, woody, who ever from FIRST that is reading this, please reconsider the timing of nats this year, and if it's impossible to change this year, at least try to make it after APs next year. thanks.