Ball bouncing out of the high Goal

[New Lightning]

So I had this thought today as we were reviewing out prototyped shooters and I realized that we had a lot of force coming out of these shooters. My concern would be what would be the ruling if we shot the ball into the high goal, but there was so much force on the ball that it bounced off the backboard and rebounded back into the field. Would that still count as a score or would we have to shoot it back into the goal again?

[BigJ]

The BOULDER never counts as scored.

Originally Posted by 3.1.4

A BOULDER is scored in a GOAL if it passes through the opening of a GOAL and exits into the CORRAL.

[The Doctor]

Originally Posted by BigJ

The BOULDER never counts as scored.

Yeah, the scoring system counts all boulders that fall into the corral, with some counters at the bottom of the tower. There are no counters at the entrance of the tower. They showed the counters in one of the intro videos.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by The Doctor

Yeah, the scoring system counts all boulders that fall into the corral, with some counters at the bottom of the tower. There are no counters at the entrance of the tower. They showed the counters in one of the intro videos.

There must be some sensor before the corral, or else the scoring system wouldn't know to add a high goal or a low goal.

[Kristian Calhoun]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

There must be some sensor before the corral, or else the scoring system wouldn't know to add a high goal or a low goal.

There are separate sensors used for scoring balls entering the corral from the high and low goals. See the attached picture:

[BethMo]

There will be chains hanging inside the goal to absorb force, which will (hopefully!) prevent this from being much of a problem.

However, based on previous years experience, I believe that shots that bounce out will not count towards your score.

[CalTran]

There are chains like in 2013 and 2010 to help mitigate the boulders bouncing out. That said, in your scenario, when the ball bounces off, it doesn't count as scored.
Have you considered shooting with less force?

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by New Lightning

So I had this thought today as we were reviewing out prototyped shooters and I realized that we had a lot of force coming out of these shooters. My concern would be what would be the ruling if we shot the ball into the high goal, but there was so much force on the ball that it bounced off the backboard and rebounded back into the field. Would that still count as a score or would we have to shoot it back into the goal again?

It's a lot like 2013 when frisbees routinely bounced out of the goals - either from hitting the target with too much force or from over-filling the goals to the point they spilled out.... If it doesn't stay in, it's no good.

[tindleroot]

I feel sorry for the team that that happened to in 2014. They shot a high goal, then it bounced on a table edge or something and came right back through the goal onto the field. Even that didn't count as scored...

[Peyton Yeung]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

I feel sorry for the team that that happened to in 2014. They shot a high goal, then it bounced on a table edge or something and came right back through the goal onto the field. Even that didn't count as scored...

I think this is what you were referring to.

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung

I think this is what you were referring to.

That be it.

[danieh65]

At the very least, it would be helpful if FIRST increased the amount or mass of the chains so that this would not happen as often. While we have been considering lowering the power of our shooter so that this does not happen as often, it just seems logical to ensure that shots made in the high goal are counted as accurately as possible. In the last competition, 107 experienced this issue recurrently, sometimes occurring up to three times in a single match.

[Ben Wolsieffer]

We also ran into problems with balls bouncing out of the high goal, and for us it always happened the same way.

If we lined up just to the right of the center goal (the same thing would probably happen from the the left of the goal), the ball would hit the back corner and bounce out the right goal. I believed this happened three times in Boston, and it caused us to lose our first quarterfinal match when it bounced out during auto. This video shows what happened.

[scca229]

Originally Posted by lopsided98

We also ran into problems with balls bouncing out of the high goal, and for us it always happened the same way.

If we lined up just to the right of the center goal (the same thing would probably happen from the the left of the goal), the ball would hit the back corner and bounce out the right goal. I believed this happened three times in Boston, and it caused us to lose our first quarterfinal match when it bounced out during auto. This video shows what happened.

Just watching the auto shot that didn't stay in, I can see that your robot fires pretty hard. Does it also fire with a significant horizontal spin? The resolution of the video doesn't let me see if the boulder even touches the chains at all, or just hits the opposite inside of the tower and then runs along the back plastic and comes out. The chains are there to absorb some of the energy of the boulder and attempt to keep the boulder from coming in one side and bouncing out the other or coming into the center and bouncing off the back right out the center again.

My unscientific observation, after watching 314 Qual/Elim matches and ~100 practice matches field-side, is that a very hard shot causes the chains to not have time to move or absorb and actually act as a solid wall. More mass would actually cause that particular action to occur more than it does. They need to have some mass, or the boulder is going to blast right through them, but too much and they don't move at all.

That missed shot wasn't what solely lost the match. After auto, you spent 23 seconds hung up on an alliance partner and then fired two high goal shots off of the tower facade (with one low goal in between). The red alliance also missed an auto shot on high goal. Two blue robots rolled off the batter at the end. Red alliance "should" have had a capture if one bot hadn't gotten stuck on the moat. Red also fully depleted the tower but didn't breach the defenses, which I can't think I have seen first hand in any of the 3 events I've FTA'd. The score (individually and combined) for the match was a good deal lower than the 2nd match of the series. Both alliances had a cavalcade of errors to point to for how it was lost and won.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by danieh65

At the very least, it would be helpful if FIRST increased the amount or mass of the chains so that this would not happen as often. While we have been considering lowering the power of our shooter so that this does not happen as often, it just seems logical to ensure that shots made in the high goal are counted as accurately as possible. In the last competition, 107 experienced this issue recurrently, sometimes occurring up to three times in a single match.

A BOULDER is scored in a GOAL if it passes through the opening of a GOAL and exits into the CORRAL.

FIRST is correctly counting scored BOULDERS. You are simply not scoring them because they are not exiting into the CORRAL. Field is working as designed and spec'd.