Terrifying Karthik

[cait.schroeder]

So Joe you mentioned that the person's entire contribution to CD is also being judged. What about newcomers like me? I have attempted to contribute as much as possible but who knows. Will experience also be a factor? Hope so im looking forward to sharing 12 cans of Mtn. Dew with the team

[Captain_Kirch]

Originally Posted by SM987

Did we just see a spoiler of your playoffs strategy?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by SM987

//image clipped//

He meant to say "The results of this pole are terrifying."

To add insult to injury, I'm sure that's over 15 inches. FOUL!

[efoote868]

Karthik is afraid that 85% of the teams designing a low bar robot will not execute the design properly (not enough clearance), and that a team getting disabled on the low bar will be part of 90% of all Triple Tortugas.

That leaves a crowded field of short bots to play defense. Worse than robots jumping the moat will be those robots landing on top of other robots.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...an-in-Head.gif

[Bryce2471]

Thanks for this Joe. It should be entertaining at the very least.

My two cents:

Karthik might be scared because 1114 built a low bar capable robot in anticipation that it would will be rare and valuable, only to find out that it will likely be overcrowded.

[Ginger Power]

I think the answer is simple and has already been stated: design tradeoffs. If a team is designing to be low bar capable they will be less capable in other aspects of the game. That makes the game less interesting to watch, and lowers the floor of the competition which nobody wants to see.

[matthewdenny]

Statistically, spiders seem most likely.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

What do YOU think Karthik is terrified of?

I think Karthik is terrified of teams that made sacrifices to attempt the low bar realizing--at their events--that they can't clear the low bar. At that point, it is very difficult if not flat impossible to recoup the capabilities you sacrificed to attempt the low bar. Just as teams that slapped on passive hook hangers in 2013 realized weight distribution was critical, or tall robots in 2012 realized they couldn't use a dingus to help balancing, the low bar is a serious set of limitations that should be regarded accordingly.

Alternate take: Karthik is terrified of having to emcee this year because even his formidable ups may not be enough for a Portcullis/Drawbridge combo, and ramparts and rough terrains may have a Libby Kamen-esque effect on Jordans.

(I drink Diet Dew, thanks.)

[mrnoble]

This game has so much potential for fun and interesting things to happen. What will it be like if, for 9/10 matches on Friday, all six teams on the field are trying to get through the only defense they thought they needed to build for? And what if two of them were built 1" too tall? Have we ever had a game where six robots do nothing most of the time?

[cmwilson13]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

This game has so much potential for fun and interesting things to happen. What will it be like if, for 9/10 matches on Friday, all six teams on the field are trying to get through the only defense they thought they needed to build for? And what if two of them were built 1" too tall? Have we ever had a game where six robots do nothing most of the time?

yes 2011 had lots of very low scoring games

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by cmwilson13

yes 2011 had lots of very low scoring games

But robots were still moving, and trying, right? I think this might be worse

[Richard Wallace]

He's terrified that the low bar will be the scene of nasty tortugas in a significant number of qualifying matches. This will tend to randomize seedings.

[Mitchell1714]

Karthik is terrified 1114 will be the only team at Waterloo not to go under the low bar.

[PayneTrain]

I think the low bar is the MOST unique and intriguing game element in my 8 years of competing and I'm excited to see how it plays off in different places and different times of the competition season. This is a very unique game in that core movement of a robot is directly contributing points at a nigh-even pace as other challenges in the game and that alone should have provided not necessarily a shift in a team's strategic design, but the perspective they take to the game.

I would say that one of the championship-winning viable strategies involves doing as much as you can with the low bar constraint. I think there is a very slim sliver of teams that can/should/will successfully package their robot with the low bar constraint and compete at a powerhouse level, which I think is obvious.

90% is definitely not a terrifying number (as someone who embellishes for effect wrt honing strategic design in FRC with students, it feels like what he said was slight hyperbole) it certainly gives me pause. Remember, this is a game where your core movement is directly contributing points to your final score! This is giving teams an opportunity for teams that can't really surpass a Tier 0 function of core movement, right?

You'd hope so. This game features many "pinch points", both literal and in terms of the meta of Stronghold. The meta pinch points will show up in congestion of RPs in qualifications. One robot can in theory, get 1 RP by itself with a well executed strategy. It is literally impossible to get 2+ RPs by yourself without getting a win. I want to believe the RP system this year will actually be awesome, but I worry that the pinch point with capturing is going to tick off some teams in qualifications and give you a level of randomization of lesser but still nontrivial levels of 2012.

You get another point of congestion where you have elimination alliances of 3 low bar robots. Quite simply, unless the other 21 robots in the bracket are low bar robots, you're potentially at quite the disadvantage. Imagine a scenario with a 3.5 foot tall, impeccable high goal shooting robot you are playing against. There are some ways to solve that problem, but they involve tradeoffs you tried to skirt around at kickoff...

The elephant in the room is the literal pinch point. Team Icarus flew too close to the sun and locks themselves in the low bar during a match. That's probably the most terrifying thing.

I probably didn't actually guess right, but that's most of what I have gathered. If it's really that terrifying and no one has said exactly why yet, I imagine Karthik has a captive audience here.

[JesseK]

I bet it was a metaphor.

Karthik was "terrified" of what CD can degenerate into so early in the season with such a loaded and unscientific poll.