Terrifying Karthik

[Ryan Dognaux]

Did we choose to make a low bar capable robot? Yes. Like many others who came to this conclusion, we figured having 1 defense that was always the same was too valuable to pass up when combined with our goal of shooting in the high goal multiple times in a match.

However, we also highly prioritized defense crossing. So far it seems like we will be able to do category A, B and D defenses simply by using our drive train & intake mechanism, along with some creative geometry. The category C defenses may take an additional mechanism, but the great thing about the low bar this year is that we have a ton of weight to play with. Like 30 pounds of additional weight.

Tons of people mentioned blocked shots - why anyone is trying to shoot from 1/3 of a field away is beyond me. We're going to drive right up on the batter and shoot with our robot against the castle. It's 2014's corner shot all over again and we're taking it. I'd rather us fight your spy bot for position and win that battle than hope we sink a miracle shot through a tiny goal opening.

I'm scared every year that we'll be that team that completely blows it for an alliance, but more often than not it's not our team doing awful. I'm optimistic that our low bar, high goal shooting / hanging strategy will be successful. I'm fearful that we'll get paired with a robot that had good intentions but can do nothing effectively because they tried to package everything in a small amount of space. My guess is Karthik is too.

[hectorcastillo]

Karthik is terrified because he thought there was 16in of clearance this whole time.

[staplemonx]

This https://youtu.be/9Fj4nDOAigg is what scares the great white northern robot builder eh.

Hosers https://youtu.be/X-ZvAVcBIrQ its because he is a genius eh.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by JesseK

I bet it was a metaphor.

Karthik was "terrified" of what CD can degenerate into so early in the season with such a loaded and unscientific poll.

Ha. Probably.

[MrJohnston]

I fail to believe that Karthik is "terrified" of anything relating to FRC... Nay, I believe, being a good Canadian, he had just watched the Maple Leafs (who are currently looking like a borderline playoff team) lose a game in which a potential tying goal bounced off the post (a.k.a. "poll") late in the third period. He chased the tough loss down with a few Antigravity Lagers before hoping onto Chief Delphi.... Then, in a mildly inebriated state, he confused his two loves: Hockey and Robots and made a post that had nothing to do with the thread.

[EricH]

Karthik is afraid...

Because if what might be considered the top half of FRC teams (those who interact with other teams via CD, share information, etc), are 90% going under the low bar...

You can bet that the "bottom half" isn't going to be far behind. BUT, they don't necessarily know about the fact that being 16" tall is going to hurt you, and so there will be about 75% of the field jammed in the Neutral Zone/Secret Passages unable to move farther due to lousy planning on drivetrains, making it hard for teams who DID account for those little nuisances to get through.

That's what Karthik is afraid of: Severe congestion in the Neutral Zone, slowing down the whole game.



BTW, as I recall, I can think of one team that most definitely isn't planning to go under the low bar.

[evanperryg]

Taking a strategic design standpoint, my assumption would be that he's astounded by the fact that so many teams, even high-level teams, are willing to sacrifice tons of space in the name of scoring 10 easy points that could be easily scored by lower-level alliance partner. Teams with high-level abilities ought to focus on the hard tasks (cough cough shooting) while low level teams complete simpler tasks reliably (low bar).

From a match strategy standpoint, I think the concern about low bar meta is, as Kevin Sevcik explained quite nicely, 3 teams relying on the low bar to traverse between the primary gamepiece entry point and the goal scoring point just screams "choke point." Cyclers will have to be well coordinated in their movement to make effective cycles. Good alliances will realize that having a courtyard defender is less effective than having a defender to simply block off the low bar, especially against alliances that rely on the low bar to complete cycles effectively.

So, from this, it'd be easy to feel that low bar meta is going to be extremely problematic for those teams that subscribe to it. However, it will have some huge benefits for the best low bar meta teams. When in a situation where there is no defender blocking the low bar, these robots have a massive advantage in their ability to complete fast cycles. Short robots will also be more likely to have a low center of gravity, meaning they can cross defenses with less risk of falling. The few low bar teams who have consistent high-elevation shooters will be ridiculously strong against poorly coordinated alliances.

Personally, I see scaling as being a cover for the biggest red herring of the season- the low bar. Everyone will be able to do it, yet the sacrifices you must make for the few points you gain will cause many teams to struggle significantly. It's low risk, with equally low reward, but the sacrifices that must be made could create disaster.

[DohertyBilly]

Maybe it's not even about the pile ups that are bound to happen. With so many ways to score this year, there are many more ways to be a strong robot than being a quick low bar shooter. Robots with high shooters are harder to block, and they have less vertical distance to reach, which may allow for a much more effective shooter than you could fit on a low robot. If such a high percentage of teams have a low bar design, there may be too many of one robot archetype. This year of all years, that would be a real shame.

[Sperkowsky]

My team originally decided on a tall high goal shooter. After a day of CAD we realized it was easier for us to build a low goal shooter aw we could combine an intake with a shooter. We successfully finished a high goal/low goal shooter week 3 and we have been able to spend time tweaking it to perfection and building a climber. We have also done stuff like improve our drive train.

For context we used to be a low resource team. This year we changed a lot and I would consider us a middle of the road team now but, this is crazy for us. In 2013 we had a drive train with a net in 2014 we had a drive train and in 2015 we had a non working stacker. The task of low bar while making nice sub systems is very accessible.

[Chris Endres]

I think Karthik is mad that being able to go under the low bar wouldn't mean your in the cool kids club, rather, the cool kids club would only be limitted to tall robots. It's like thinking you're cool when you have Jordan's, but really the cool kids are the ones with light-up Sketchers.

EDIT: I'll take regular Mt. Dew, or Mt. Frost from Aldi (mmmmmm, delicious)

[Andrew Schreiber]

Also, seeing this thread in my control panel keeps making me laugh.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Also, seeing this thread in my control panel keeps making me laugh.

This whole thread is awkward.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

This whole thread is awkward.

This whole thread terrifies Karthik.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

This whole thread terrifies Karthik.

Isn't that what started this? We're going to get Karthik meta-terrified... metafied?

[Taylor]

I'm so meta, even this acronym.