A moment of silence please

[robomama]

this forum is so much fun and i really get a lot of laughs from ya'll-thanks so much for that.
....but i hope that each of you will take a moment tomorrow and remember those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001. and remember those left behind for they are really feeling the emptiness that you get when you lose a loved one.

peace
b

[mtaman02]

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE
TO THE FLAG
OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
AND TO THE REPUBLIC
FOR WHICH IT STANDS
ONE NATION
UNDERGOD
INDIVISIBLE
WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL

[sanddrag]

see this too.

[Mike Schroeder]

Everyone sould also take a moment to remember our troops fighting terrorism around the world

[sanddrag]

Absolutely, and also the members of the Peace Corps.

[Madison]

Originally posted by Mr.Volcano
Everyone sould also take a moment to remember our troops fighting terrorism around the world

Please, don't forget the other troops who're subverting governments, participating in our very own propagandized terrorism, killing innocent people, and training the future generations of terrorists.

[Amber H.]

Thank you for sharing that link Sanddrag. That was very thoughtful.

Good point from the post just before mine as well. It's hard to see all sides when we are grieving. But today is to remember our fallen loved ones. I lost my neighbor a year ago today when his plane out of Boston slammed into the WTC. His daughter chose to show defiance to those who caused us pain by going ahead with her wedding. My ex-husband (A gifted musician) was happy to provide music, free of charge, for thier ring ceremony.
So you see.....we are all in some way connected to someone who was lost on that terrible day that brought our nation together a year ago.

Thanks for putting up with me guys.

Miss Tree (AKA Amber)

[sanddrag]

Amber,

I am very sorry to hear about your neighbor.

PS. What's there to put up with?

[Bill Gold]

Michael:
Definitely. I'm glad someone had the guts to bring that up with all of this patriotism in the air... You're a better man than I.

-Bill

<edit>
I just thought I'd share part of a column that I thought was interesting. I didn't write it, but if you want to feel better about yourself by flaming me for not sharing your opinion... go ahead. I don't care.

"While an understandable focus has been placed on the 2,801 casualties of the event, there's another casualty that has escaped much notice.

That casualty is our freedom.

With all the focus on the war against terrorism, we've been distracted from the real war that's going on - our governments (US and Canadian) versus us.

There was much ado after September 11 about defending our way of life from attack. There were many speeches about protecting liberty and our democratic way of life. But in a twist that would have amused George Orwell, many of those speeches and the steps they proposed to protect our freedoms were nothing more than a smokescreen for taking them away.

Tell me, do you feel more secure now that airports conduct random searches and prevent you from taking anything sharp onboard a plane? Sorry, I don't. Random searches are nothing but a PR stunt. On most of the flights I've taken, the people pulled aside have been white-haired old men and ladies.

As for stopping you from taking sharp items on a plane…that makes sense when it comes to items that could possibly be used for assault purposes. But a pin on the back of a button? A nail clipper? That's sure to stop any unwanted airborne manicures, but terrorists? Please.

Better safe than sorry, you say? No, better smart than sorry. And these steps aren't smart, they're annoying, improperly executed and insulting to one's intelligence.

But these steps are just an inconvenience. The real problem is the draconian steps the government took to take away our freedoms. Governments can now read our e-mail, enter our homes and search our property without a warrant, all to protect us from terrorists. Great. But who's going to protect us from the government?

Certainly not the media, who helped the government sell us their version of reality. They made the perfect bedfellows - the government needs our fear to control us, and the media needs our fear to sell more newspapers.

You know what happened on September 11, 2001? The FBI screwed-up, the White House screwed-up, the airports screwed-up - and as a result, 2,081 people died horribly.

But you won't hear that too often. Because the same power that convinced us that artery-clogging fast-food is our friend and Will & Grace is Must-See-TV turned their brainwashing power to pushing the White House's agenda.

Anyone with opinions that didn't fall into lockstep with the White House propaganda were discredited in the press as being soft on terrorists, or insensitive to the 911 victims. In the U.S., columnists were fired for daring to criticize their half-wit president. Orwell's thought-crimes had become a reality. Freedom of the press is meaningless if the press refuses to exercise it. Instead of doing it's job as an independent arena for the discovery of truth, the newsmedia effectively choked off debate all in the name of protecting our way-of-life. Thanks...

Ironically, the only winner in this whole scenario is Afghanistan who, freed of the Taliban, actually had their rights restored. Truth is stranger than fiction, but this is practically the Twilight Zone...."
</edit>

[Amber H.]

Originally posted by sanddrag
Amber,

I am very sorry to hear about your neighbor.

PS. What's there to put up with?

Oh.....I guess as an old lady, putting in my two cents, I feel that I might get to sentimental sometimes.

Mr. Gold,
That was an interesting article excerpt. I must admit that I have stopped flying commercially because I don't want to go through the humilitaion of being strip searched. I have a six inch metal plate holding together what's left of one of my thigh bones, I'm sure to get stopped when I set off the metal detector nowadays.


Scary isn't it?

[Elgin Clock]

Another thing about metal detectors, especially if you are on the mechanical team: Steel toed shoes set off metal detectors too!! I found that out in 2001, before 9-11 on the way to Florida for Nats.
But I found it interesting how the two airports handled it.
In CT, they made me stand aside and wanded me. Then after it beeped near my feet, the lady there pulled up my pants legs to make sure I wasn't concealing a weapon of some sort under my pants or socks. I told her it was steel toed shoes but procedure is procedure.
In FL on the way home, the metal detector went off again, (I know I know stupid me I should have learned the first time and not worn them again) I went through and they wanded me and when it beeped near my shoes I again told the person that it was steel toed shoes.
They just waved me on through!! I was kind of shocked at that!!!

Very interesting!

This year I wore normal sneakers as I did not want to be stopped.
(But I was anyways, as a random screening.)
Oh well!!

[Wetzel]

Many people have laid their lives opon the alter of freedom to protect the freedoms we have today. Yet those in power wish to stay in power, and gain more power. They saw fear in the public after September 11th, and rather then uphold the Constitution like they swore, but catered to the mood of the moment and expanded their power while limiting our freedom to make the homeland 'safe'.

From LP.org
As the nation commemorates the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Libertarians are urging the government to pay tribute to them by restoring the full constitutional rights that Americans enjoyed before that tragic event.

“September 11 is a day for Americans to proclaim, ‘We will never surrender,’ ” said Steve Dasbach, Libertarian Party executive director. “We will never surrender to the terrorists who threaten our safety, nor will we surrender our fundamental liberties to the government.”

On the one-year anniversary of the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington that claimed nearly 3,000 lives, Americans are reliving the shock and brutality of the event, sharing in the anguish of the victims and struggling to come to grips with the “day that changed everything.”

And as the nation participates in various displays of patriotism, Libertarians are urging the government to restore the freedoms that were taken away in the aftermath of the attacks so Americans can reclaim the liberty that is their birthright.

“In the trauma following the 9/11 attacks, an anxious public was clamoring for politicians to ‘do something,’ ” said Dasbach. “Unfortunately, they did the wrong thing, by passing laws restricting the freedom of innocent people.”

Just six weeks after the event, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which expands the government’s power to tap phones, monitor the Internet, conduct ‘sneak-and-peak’ searches and even gives the FBI power to force librarians and bookstores to reveal the names of customers.

And that was just the beginning of a misguided government power grab, Dasbach said.

“President Bush now asserts that he has the power to proclaim – without showing evidence – that American citizens are ‘enemy combatants,’ and then to order them jailed indefinitely without charges, without access to a lawyer and without the right to appeal.

“Attorney General John Ashcroft, according to a Wall Street Journal article, plans to set up camps for more such enemy combatants who will be jailed without charges, and a cowardly Congress declines to speak out against these police-state tactics.”

Now Congress and the president should admit that mistakes were made in the post-9/11 rush to legislate, Libertarians say.

“It’s time to repeal the Patriot Act and to renounce Bush’s breathtaking presidential power grab before any more damage is done to American freedom,” Dasbach said.

Another thing the government should do to commemorate 9/11, Libertarians say, is to reform U.S. foreign policy to reduce the chance of more terror attacks.

“Bush seems oblivious to one of the lessons of 9/11, which is that meddling in hostile foreign nations doesn’t solve problems; it causes them,” Dasbach said.

"Now the president is poised to invade Iraq – a nation that poses no imminent threat to the United States – in a move that could prompt terrorists to execute more barbarous attacks on our shores.

“The only thing that could be worse than the tragedy of September 11 would be to have another such massacre, and another one after that.

“The best way to honor those who perished on September 11 is by ensuring that more Americans – and more American freedoms – don’t perish as well.”


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~
/me is listening to E:\Bob Marley\Bob Marley - 06 - Get Up Stand Up.mp3
Read the lyriccs

[Bill Gold]

Nice article Wetz.

[Ian W.]

i've been thinking, and i'm starting to get kind of sick of the whole patriotism thing. sure, it was great for a time. then, all the flags on cars wound up on highways (on the side of the highway, like trash, not on the cars), people stopped caring, and then today, they're patriotic, but tomorrow they're normal again. it just annoys me.

second, if you want to have a very broad definition of terrorism, 9/11 was nothing. i consider what happened during WWII (or, the Holucaust), to be a terrorist act. hitler's only reason to kill, to get rid of the jews. the reason behind 9/11? to get rid of the americans. now lets see, almost 3,000, or 11 million (6 million of who were jews). i feel that in the scheme of things, 9/11 was much overblown, and should not have been. sure, the holucaust was a 'war', but bush made 9/11 into a 'war' too.

also, one must think about all the people killed in israel over the years. guess what, i bet it's pretty close, if not higher than 3000. also, they live in the constant fear of being blown up, where as 9/11 was a seemingly isolated event. consider all the other terrorism throughout the world, i bet 9/11 was much smaller compared to everythign else. the only reason it's "so big"? it happened in america, and since it was the first (Well, second if you count the oklahoma bombing), it was blown way out of proportion.

i'm sorry if this annoys anyone, but one really must consider all points of view. please, dont' flame me, but i am willing to have an intelligent debate with anyone who wants too.

[FIRSTnut_000]

“In the trauma following the 9/11 attacks, an anxious public was clamoring for politicians to ‘do something,’ ” said Dasbach. “Unfortunately, they did the wrong thing, by passing laws restricting the freedom of innocent people.”

Agreed.

Tell me, do you feel more secure now that airports conduct random searches and prevent you from taking anything sharp onboard a plane? Sorry, I don't. Random searches are nothing but a PR stunt. On most of the flights I've taken, the people pulled aside have been white-haired old men and ladies.

Actually, I do feel safer on a plane now.

Just six weeks after the event, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which expands the government’s power to tap phones, monitor the Internet, conduct ‘sneak-and-peak’ searches and even gives the FBI power to force librarians and bookstores to reveal the names of customers.

Depending on your viewpoint, this could be a violation of your first through tenth ammendment rights. I'll let you guys decide on that one.

“President Bush now asserts that he has the power to proclaim – without showing evidence – that American citizens are ‘enemy combatants,’ and then to order them jailed indefinitely without charges, without access to a lawyer and without the right to appeal.

Actually, he can do that. Taken from The Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 2: "The privilage of the writ of habeus corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebelion or invasion, the public safety may require it." Now, for those of you who don't know, the writ of habeus corpus dates back to the Magna Carta, and prevents police, sherrifs, etc, from holding you without being charged for a crime. It can only be suspended as mention above. I would consider what happened a year ago to be an invasion, so Bush certainly can jail people without charges. Doesn't mean it's right though.

Now Congress and the president should admit that mistakes were made in the post-9/11 rush to legislate, Libertarians say.

This coincides with the first statement, and I agree with it too.

"Now the president is poised to invade Iraq – a nation that poses no imminent threat to the United States – in a move that could prompt terrorists to execute more barbarous attacks on our shores.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Bush poised to invade Iraq before this all happened? Either way though, it will still cause more tension.

“The only thing that could be worse than the tragedy of September 11 would be to have another such massacre, and another one after that.

“The best way to honor those who perished on September 11 is by ensuring that more Americans – and more American freedoms – don’t perish as well.”

I do give credit to the government for trying, but a wise man (okay, puppet) once said: "Don't try. Do, or do not. There is no try." It's simple: the government is not doing. The terrorists are still trying, and almost got through on a few occasions since then. Sadly, i don't think much is going to change.