Real vs. Theory, Week 0.5

[mrnoble]

Inspired by this quote from Boltman...

"Hey can someone there give us a summary of things you learned that you did not know going in... just an overall REAL vs theoretical breakdown. Like what was easier/harder, challenges and did human players have any significant effect."

In particular:

• Real field elements
• Real line of sight for drivers
• Real defense
• Taking real shots at the high and low goal
• Real damage to robots
• Real problems with the game
• Real fun parts

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Inspired by this quote from Boltman...

"Hey can someone there give us a summary of things you learned that you did not know going in... just an overall REAL vs theoretical breakdown. Like what was easier/harder, challenges and did human players have any significant effect."

In particular:

• Real field elements
• Real line of sight for drivers
• Real defense
• Taking real shots at the high and low goal
• Real damage to robots
• Real problems with the game
• Real fun parts

Thought you said batman...

[snoman]

Being you did not ask if I was really there. But I really did see several matches on the stream.
1. High goal seems hard
2 low goal seems hard
3 I did see HPs trying to communicate, not sure of the effects
4 teams were having good results with crossing, made up at least 1/2 the score for every game
5 very few have climbing down yet

[Alicia V]

Something my team noticed when watching the stream was that very few alliances went for the rank point by breaching defenses. I thought this was not a good understand of the rules when teams went to go get 5 points during end game by waiting on the batter of their opponent's tower instead of using their alliances to open the one last door and get that rank point. If a team was winning by a large number of points, some alliances still didn't bother to get the rank point. Anybody know why this kept happening or was this not a complete understand to how rank points work?

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Alicia V

alliances still didn't bother to get the rank point. Anybody know why this kept happening or was this not a complete understand to how rank points work?

You'd be surprised how many teams don't read the Tournament section of the rules.

[nuggetsyl]

Lack of defense in playoffs made scores higher in the playoffs then they should be.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by CalTran

You'd be surprised how many teams don't read the Tournament section of the rules.

You'd be surprised how many teams don't read the rules period.

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by Alicia V

Something my team noticed when watching the stream was that very few alliances went for the rank point by breaching defenses. I thought this was not a good understand of the rules when teams went to go get 5 points during end game by waiting on the batter of their opponent's tower instead of using their alliances to open the one last door and get that rank point. If a team was winning by a large number of points, some alliances still didn't bother to get the rank point. Anybody know why this kept happening or was this not a complete understand to how rank points work?

Teams at Regionals seem to care less about where they're ranked. At a regional being top 8-10 is important for being an alliance captain, but there really isn't a difference between ranks 15-64. At District Events your rank affects if you go to DCMP, so more teams try to rank high. I did some math last year and found that WAY more teams did coopertition at District Events than at Regionals (even highly competitive Regionals were outdone by very weak District Events). If a team at a Regional doesn't expect that they'll be in the top 8, then why try for a breach?

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by AGPapa

Teams at Regionals seem to care less about where they're ranked. At a regional being top 8-10 is important for being an alliance captain, but there really isn't a difference between ranks 15-64. At District Events your rank affects if you go to DCMP, so more teams try to rank high. I did some math last year and found that WAY more teams did coopertition at District Events than at Regionals (even highly competitive Regionals were outdone by very weak District Events). If a team at a Regional doesn't expect that they'll be in the top 8, then why try for a breach?

Of course if you don't try for the breach, you are sure to be out of the top 10.

[Fauge7]

from what i observed from watching the livestream with a good amount of matches

• autonomous and climbing are easy points and would easily get you a good spot in playoffs
• the drawbridge and door are very hard and possibly a waste of time
• low goal is NOT really helpful
• breacher bot is a valid strategy
• shooter is hard and almost impossible without a vision tracking system
• hard to see where your going

the best defence is as follows statistically:

• cheval de frise
• moat
• drawbridge
• rockwall

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Fauge7

the best defence is as follows statistically:

• cheval de frise
• moat
• drawbridge
• rockwall

What do you mean by "best" defense? The best one to select for the other alliance? The best crossings? Curious the definition of best.

[BenGuy]

Scores were a lot higher than I personally expected them to be, at least compared to last year. Our first match last year was 2-0

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by BenGuy

Scores were a lot higher than I personally expected them to be, at least compared to last year. Our first match last year was 2-0

Last year required a certain amount of engineering moving a big tote is rather hard for a kitbot.

This year almost any bot can "score" and not as much engineering is required. However to do well is a challenge, I feel this game is a leveling game in many respects because the outcome can be directly affected by a change in strategy or robot fatigue.

I am excited to see the very high levels of play this year, a challenge for sure but seems to be real fun. I don't see any one type of dominate bot this year. I do believe like last year, perfect alliance selection and absolute teamwork will win it all.

[Fauge7]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

What do you mean by "best" defense? The best one to select for the other alliance? The best crossings? Curious the definition of best.

what i meant was that they are the statistically the hardest to cross, different definition of best...I think I might add up the week one and get a running total to see if it changes

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by BenGuy

Scores were a lot higher than I personally expected them to be, at least compared to last year. Our first match last year was 2-0

Last year, fouls subtracted from your team's score, this year they add to your opposing alliance. Scores shall be higher. Honestly, last year a cockroach 'bot (drive system only) should have been able to put two or three totes on a scoring platform (though not on top of each other).

Originally Posted by pandamonium

Low goal is harder than teams think and more time consuming. It is easier and more realistic to take 3 high goal shots and only make 2 than to put 5 into the low goal.

We called this on game reveal day. High goals are quicker (assuming auto-aiming with a camera), and low goals require driving up to a goal and reversing your loader, but there is zero computer assist available for a low goal shot unless your software is way more subtle than we usually have. Now that we realize that the batter separators are transparent, this is even more the case. In any case, your boulder pickup needs to somehow center the boulder within your robot to attempt a low goal shot.

Originally Posted by marshall

The defenses are brutal on drivetrains and I'm not of the opinion that the wooden team versions provide the same difficulty that the actual ones provide. We managed to crack some versa hubs (https://twitter.com/FRC900/status/703693490752978945). Thanks to 1296 for graciously providing us with some aluminum replacements. Team 900 loves #TeamIFI!

Not unexpected, but perhaps a bit worse than expected. I foresee that in addition to mechanical tightening, we'll be wielding the hot glue gun on many of our electrical connections on Thursday, despite Al's likely advice.

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

You'd be surprised how many teams don't read the rules period.

It's taken several years, but I think I've finally pulled my team out of the "don't read the rules" event horizon. Last year, we had two students really familiar with the rules, this year it's around four to six, most of whom are likely drive team members, and the others are certain pit crew members. We actually had a core group of students study general game strategy "underground", that is, independently of mentors over the summer, thinking that the mentors were opposed to such studies. I was one of the few mentors they trusted with this information at the time. Team dynamics can be tricky.