Modifying Denso Motors

[naldarn]

We are allowed to modify a motor for mounting, as long as we do not change the electrical or mechanical function. We would like to modify the 062100-1941 Denso motor by tapping the stationary center post for a bolt to retain an arm, or better yet, remove the post and replace with a bolt. Would this be legal?

The motor in question is the 9 tooth window motor with an large flat face that rotates around the post.

Any info will be welcome.

Peter Cauchy

[Retired Starman]

Generally, you may make only a few modifications to a MOTOR such as for mounting or attaching something to the shaft.

The Denso motors, however, are a combination of motor and gear box. While you are limited in how you can modify the motor, you have greater freedom to modify the gear box. The changes you are suggesting are being made, not to the motor, but to the gear box (which comes as part of the set of motor and gearbox). See the difference?

At my event, I would approve your changes as long as you didn't modify that silver thing attached to the black gearbox which is the motor.

[Mark McLeod]

I go the other way, the window motors have explicit permission to only be modified to remove the locking pins.

Originally Posted by R30

The integral mechanical and electrical system of any motor must not be modified. Motors, servos, and electric solenoids used on the ROBOT shall not be modified in any way, except as follows:
...
C.The locking pins on the window motors (P/N: 262100-3030 and 262100-3040) may be removed.
...

The Q&A and your event Lead Robot Inspector will know for sure.

[Retired Starman]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

I go the other way, the window motors have explicit permission to only be modified to remove the locking pins.




The Q&A and your event Lead Robot Inspector will know for sure.

Q-806 in the Question and Answer section would indicate that the gear box can be considered a separate item since it can be removed from the unit and attached to another legal motor. By this reasoning, modifying the gearbox portion of the unit would not be considered as modifying the motor's electrical or mechanical condition.

And yes, I am a Lead Robot Inspector.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Retired Starman

Q-806 in the Question and Answer section would indicate that the gear box can be considered a separate item since it can be removed from the unit and attached to another legal motor. By this reasoning, modifying the gearbox portion of the unit would not be considered as modifying the motor's electrical or mechanical condition.

I disagree.
R30 seems quite clear that the "integral mechanical and electrical system of any motor must not be modified".

Q-806 only says that after the gearbox is fully removed from the window motor it is just a gearbox like any other, and no longer considered a window motor.

I think you should kick this to Al and the Q&A.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Retired Starman

Q-806 in the Question and Answer section would indicate that the gear box can be considered a separate item since it can be removed from the unit and attached to another legal motor. By this reasoning, modifying the gearbox portion of the unit would not be considered as modifying the motor's electrical or mechanical condition.

And yes, I am a Lead Robot Inspector.

Reading the blue box below R30, I come to a very different conclusion:

Note that for the previous KOP Window motors and the Bosch motor, the gearbox is considered integral to the motor, thus the motor may not be used without the gearbox.

Yes, you can take the gearbox off and use it with a different motor, if you want. At that point, it is just a gearbox. However, the phrase in the blue box " the gearbox is considered integral to the motor" would seem to contradict that when it is used with the motor it comes with. In that case, they are an integral whole, and aside from the locking pins (R30-C) or mounting brackets/output shaft (R30-A) the gearbox/motor combination may not be modified.

All that said, I would consider that center post to be part of the output shaft, and see tapping it as a reasonable modification under R30-A. Obviously, this holds no weight with the LRI at your event - your best bet is to ask on the Q&A to get a definitive ruling!

[naldarn]

All great info, and I would love to post a Q & A, but cannot get our account past the "Your request is in pending state", so I know that makes this a whole 'nother problem.

[Retired Starman]

I agree with Jon on this. I believe it to be a reasonable and legal modification under the rules but encourage you to keep asking Q and A to get a true ruling. Otherwise, LRI's at different competitions might disagree over the legality of the modifications.