Scoring/game issues

[nedwards28]

I know this has been mentioned in earlier posts however, I am frustrated to learn this morning that our team lost one of our qualification matches because our scale points were given to the opposing alliance. How that mistake could happen is crazy as we were the only team at our even to even attempt a scale. Shame on us for not catching the point mishap but, we were so stinking excited to scale again that we didn't catch this until early this morning. We knew there were a lot of scoring issues going on all day long and weren't sure if it was due to the field system or lack of training by the referees. I definitely feel like this game this year is pretty complicated for a referee but, shoot! That was a 30 point swing and honestly didn't think it was possible to screw up the scale points as those are added after the match and well, no one else was even trying.

How do your teams handle the point issues? Are we incorrectly understanding that we cannot question points after a match? Or was that just about fouls? I am thinking that we need to appoint a couple of students that just focus on points and make sure we get the points we deserve so we don't walk away missing some well deserved points or match wins. Then if something comes up, we can question right away in an appropriate manner. I know a lot of your teams are more established and better organized than we are so, we are appreciative of any insight you can give.

[bstew]

See section 5.5.3 Referee Interaction. T19 states:

If a DRIVE TEAM needs clarification on a ruling or score, one (1) pre-college student from that DRIVE TEAM should address the Head REFEREE after the ARENA Reset Signal (e.g. PLAYER STATION LED strings turn green). A DRIVE TEAM member signals their desire to speak with the Head REFEREE by standing in the corresponding Red or Blue Question Box, which are located on the floor near each end of the scoring table. Depending on timing, the Head REFEREE may postpone any requested discussion until the end of the subsequent MATCH.

[Boltman]

We lost 2 breach RP... first time we left the field then asked "too late"
Second time we asked they denied it even though it was obvious from the stands

I sent a message to FRC to try to get video replay decision of any RP challenges before end of day 1 to help correct rankings ...it really messed up the ranking scale in San Diego we were way lower ranked than we should have been..but as consolation we beat #1 in two games decisively #8 alliance was captain was thrilled to have us available at their pick and we got another great bot the pick after..so it all worked out. To the detriment of alliance 1

[alicen]

Are you sure that the scale points were assigned incorrectly? Because the way you're describing it is kind of impossible.

The refs that score scales happen immediately after the end of the match, but the ones that score red side don't even look at or score blue side, and vice versa.

I can't say for sure what happened, but I don't think they awarded your scale to another team without some very serious mistakes. It would involve a ref walking to the other end of the field to put in your scale on a different ref panel, then have that scale be corroborated by the other ref on that end of the field saying "yup, that scale happened"

[nedwards28]

Originally Posted by alicen

Are you sure that the scale points were assigned incorrectly? Because the way you're describing it is kind of impossible.

The refs that score scales happen immediately after the end of the match, but the ones that score red side don't even look at or score blue side, and vice versa.

I can't say for sure what happened, but I don't think they awarded your scale to another team without some very serious mistakes. It would involve a ref walking to the other end of the field to put in your scale on a different ref panel, then have that scale be corroborated by the other ref on that end of the field saying "yup, that scale happened"

I agree, it feels really crazy! Are scores reported accurately on The Blue Alliance? I thought those were accurate scores. This is where I found the error. We are 4980.
https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016waspo_qm45

[alicen]

Originally Posted by nedwards28

I agree, it feels really crazy! Are scores reported accurately on The Blue Alliance? I thought those were accurate scores. This is where I found the error. We are 4980.
https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016waspo_qm45

I can't really speak for the accuracy of TBA scores or where the blue alliance scale points came from, etc

The only thing I really can say is that it's highly unlikely that they counted your scale for blue instead.

After watching the video of the match, your robot (4980) was not actually high enough to score a scale. You have to have ALL of your robot lifted above the top of the opening for the low goal

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by alicen

I can't really speak for the accuracy of TBA scores or where the blue alliance scale points came from, etc

The only thing I really can say is that it's highly unlikely that they counted your scale for blue instead.

After watching the video of the match, your robot (4980) was not actually high enough to score a scale. You have to have ALL of your robot lifted above the top of the opening for the low goal

Where is the video? You only need your bumpers to be over the low goal to score scale points.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

Where is the video? You only need your bumpers to be over the low goal to score scale points.

Its a little up in the thread, but here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7j...QJu4n&index=45

They were not high enough, that was established. It was their first try at scaling also. The issue there WAS a scaling awarded, and to the wrong alliance.

[alicen]

edit -- MikLast beat me to it!

[nedwards28]

Originally Posted by alicen

I can't really speak for the accuracy of TBA scores or where the blue alliance scale points came from, etc

The only thing I really can say is that it's highly unlikely that they counted your scale for blue instead.

After watching the video of the match, your robot (4980) was not actually high enough to score a scale. You have to have ALL of your robot lifted above the top of the opening for the low goal

Yeah, I agree that would be pretty outrageous to give a scale to another team. I think we are getting this figured out. I honestly did not realize G28. So, learning moment for me. Thanks for the input on how the referees score those. I wasn't sure how the referees keep track of stuff. That's good to know!

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by alicen

Are you sure that the scale points were assigned incorrectly? Because the way you're describing it is kind of impossible.

The refs that score scales happen immediately after the end of the match, but the ones that score red side don't even look at or score blue side, and vice versa.

I can't say for sure what happened, but I don't think they awarded your scale to another team without some very serious mistakes. It would involve a ref walking to the other end of the field to put in your scale on a different ref panel, then have that scale be corroborated by the other ref on that end of the field saying "yup, that scale happened"

While 4980 was not successful in this match, they were the only ones scaling at west valley, as the match video for this match confirms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7j...QJu4n&index=45 (at least this one was posted, many from here are mislabeled or outright missing.) Its fairly obvious they were the only ones scaling that match, and thus the Blue alliance should not of gotten the scaling points.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by MikLast

While 4980 was not successful in this match, they were the only ones scaling at west valley, as the match video for this match confirms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7j...QJu4n&index=45 (at least this one was posted, many from here are mislabeled or outright missing.) Its fairly obvious they were the only ones scaling that match, and thus the Blue alliance should not of gotten the scaling points.

Are you sure no foul was called because those can add scaling points to other alliance.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Boltman

Are you sure no foul was called because those can add scaling points to other alliance.

Wouldnt fouls be called as fouls and not a scale?
https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016waspo_qm45

Originally Posted by Navid Shafa

Another big issue this week:

Teams clearly crossing defenses 5 or 6 times, before the defense is scored as damaged...

Another issue is defenses being counted as damaged incorrectly, as in match 1 for the same event (watch 4513's bot and the low bar during the beginning of teleop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iik...hQJu4n&index=1) At least this match was replayed the next day.

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by MikLast

Another issue is defenses being counted as damaged incorrectly, as in match 1 for the same event (watch 4513's bot and the low bar during the beginning of teleop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iik...hQJu4n&index=1) At least this match was replayed the next day.

It got counted, but not until the timer reached 110 seconds left.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

It got counted, but not until the timer reached 110 seconds left.

Watch around the 90 second mark. That should not of counted.