Ten Foot Pole behind the castle wall

[iggy_gim]

Has anyone tried using a camera mounted on top of a tall pole for improved visibility behind the castle wall? I saw it mentioned in the Q&A and was wondering if anyone found it useful? Furthermore, if one were to use said pole with camera, where who one put it? Would it have to be in front of the starting line?
Thanks

Link to Q&A thread

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by iggy_gim

Has anyone tried using a camera mounted on top of a tall pole for improved visibility behind the castle wall? I saw it mentioned in the Q&A and was wondering if anyone found it useful? Furthermore, if one were to use said pole with camera, where who one put it? Would it have to be in front of the starting line?
Thanks

Link to Q&A thread

4009 used this at Lake Superior this past weekend.

It was attached to their driver station equipment.

[iggy_gim]

4009 used this at Lake Superior this past weekend.

It was attached to their driver station equipment.

When you say attached, how so? Was it standing on the floor, attached via a pole to the operating console or was it fully supported by the Operating Console?

[macman828]

At Southfield FiM District a team had a display Monitor, with a 10ft PVC pipe with a camera on top. It sat on the Driver Station. The PVC pipe was solely attached to the display monitor.

[iggy_gim]

So would it be legal if the pole holding the camera was standing on the ground and not on top of the shelf that is provided for the operating console?

[laurenmj330]

Originally Posted by iggy_gim

So would it be legal if the pole holding the camera was standing on the ground and not on top of the shelf that is provided for the operating console?

We (4009) had it attached to our driver's station and it's legal since there is no hight limit on the driver's station.

[Ryan_Todd]

Originally Posted by laurenmj330

We (4009) had it attached to our driver's station and it's legal since there is no hight limit on the driver's station.

The trick there is that your driver station is only allowed to be 14" deep (front to back), so now the pole is using up some of that valuable depth. If you try to stabilize the bottom of the pole by driving it into a bucket full of sand, for example, that takes up even more of the allowed depth; depending on how you mount your camera to the top, that may also use up more of the depth. If you aren't careful, you might eat up so much depth by doing this that you can't actually reach the velcro strip of the driver station shelf any more, and then your DS is vulnerable to being knocked off the shelf and onto the floor.

That was actually 862's original design for the CHAOS system, but it caused so many problems that we quickly switched to a shelf-mount strategy and never looked back!

[will Tickman]

I see no reason for why a camera pole must be attached to the Operator Console.

T26-1 The only equipment, provided it does not block visibility for FIELD STEWARDS or audience
members or jam or interfere with the remote sensing capabilities of another Team, including
vision systems, acoustic range finders, sonars, infrared proximity detectors, etc. (e.g. including
imagery that, to a reasonably astute observer, mimics the Vision Guides), that may be brought in
to the CASTLE are as follows:
A. the OPERATOR CONSOLE,
B. non-powered signaling devices,
C. reasonable decorative items,
D. TEAM STANDARDS and devices, if needed, to assist placement in the Standard Holder,
E. special clothing and/or equipment required due to a disability
F. devices used solely for the purpose of planning or tracking strategy provided they meet all of
the following conditions:
i. do not connect or attach to the OPERATOR CONSOLE
ii. do not connect or attach to the FIELD or ARENA
iii. do not connect or attach to another ALLIANCE member
iv. do not communicate with anything or anyone outside of the ARENA.
v. do not include any form of enabled wireless electronic communication
(e.g. radios, walkie-talkies, cell phones, Bluetooth communications,
Wi-Fi, etc.)
vi. do not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by
allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of
communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.

If i'm interpreting this correctly T26-1-F seems to allow devices such as a camera on a pole so long as they aren't connected to the Operator Console. It seems the legality of such devices are completely dependent on what you call them. If you say it is part of the operator console then it must be attached to the operator console and fit within the correct dimensions. However, if you say that it is used solely for the purpose of planning/tracking strategy then it may be placed anywhere within the castle so long as it is not touching the Field/Arena or the Operator console.

[Donut]

Watch 2122 at AZ North the next two days to see the pole in action. A few other teams are already working on cloning the idea as well.

On the note of T26-1, look at vi of bullet F. I would hardly say a camera used for obtaining a better live view of your robot and the field for your drivers does "not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members." If you've used it to make any driving decision like running an intake or lining up a shot it has affected the outcome of the match.

[will Tickman]

read the rest of part vi.

do not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by
allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of
communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.

[Landonh12]

Originally Posted by will Tickman

other than by
allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of
communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.

Could it be said that the pole is used to control communication between alliance members? Obviously, if one team has a periscope camera, it could be used to help the alliance with placement on the field.

It's too much of a flip-flop issue to know for sure. I feel like it depends on the Head Ref at whatever event you're at.

Hopefully we get a clarification in a future team update if this issue becomes more and more popular between teams and events.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by will Tickman

read the rest of part vi.

I did, communicating "turn left to line up with that goal" is not planning strategy. You may use a camera station to help plan strategy, but you can also use it for non-planning and tracking uses, and there is not really a way to exclude that capability.

That's how I interpret it, but I'm only reffing at AZ North and I don't expect that to come up in the next two days.

[echin]

3467 used one at GSD. We found it useful for seeing the robot behind the various high defenses, particularly the drawbridge and sally port. In most situations, it wasn't necessary, but it was quite helpful when we needed it. We made a fixture on the side of our driver console for the pole and it stayed in place for the entire match. The pole was made out of a telescoping tripod leg, which made it relatively easy to transport and adjust.

[JohnFogarty]

We're using a 3rd Person view camera on our DS this weekend at Orlando.

[JR0405]

R94 The OPERATOR CONSOLE must not exceed 60 in. long by 14 in. deep (excluding any items that are held or worn by the DRIVERS during the MATCH).

Unless you have a long pole attached to one of your drivers back, which would not only give you a bad view but be totally unsafe, the pole would have to be inside these measurements on the shelf.