Are 8 play regional reasonable?

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by Crazyaimer

Al,

Please do try and keep things gracious and professional. Now I may be misinterpreting, but please do not be so quick to insult Peter's knowledge. Peter is one of the most knowledgeable people about Minnesota FIRST that I am familiar with, and is more than aware of the concerns listed. Which is likely why he stated that "There definitely isn't a great solution to this problem, other than going to districts, but that has been addressed in the past." These have all been concerns that have been discussed in the past.

Let's all remember we are in the same game, on the same team just with different opinions on how to "win". We all want to be inspired and to inspire others to be STEM heroes in our world. We're all very passionate people who only want the best.

Originally Posted by Crazyaimer

I am concerned that comments like yours may be a part of the reason that cadandcookies feels that "people who have been called up and told not to post here about districts in MN." Now I am sure that there are many issues here, but I am sure that we are more than capable of holding a reasonable discussion.

Of course there is always drama, of course there are always politics, which does indeed cause people to become afraid and makes it difficult to post. I've posted a lot of controversial statements in the past about districts. I've been asked (via phone call) to stop posting before and that I shouldn't be posting that sort of information in public. I sincerely hope that, that has not happened to anyone else. I still post here because I believe in what I say and I believe in healthy discussion.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by TCMJ1816

While watching Top 25 last night they brought up the point that many regional competition only offer 8 qualification plays per team. In Minnesota we have 208 teams, and a vast majority of those teams only get one event a year.

At the Kansas City Regional, they offered 10 plays for 59 teams. Admittedly, the field team had to play through lunch, and they still ended 45 minutes late on Thursday. They were late too on Friday, but not as bad.

A lot of the problem was with the Radio this year. Seems to be worse than last year. Field Reset was only a problem for one or two matches (removing a stuck defense, or repairing the Sally Port), but not a long delay like some Radio delays.

Any thoughts on having Load-in and Pits open on Wednesday around Noon? Practice Rounds could start at 9 am on Thursday, with Qualification Rounds starting at 1:00 pm. RI's and Practice Field would be needed a day early on Wednesday. Everyone else would need to be ready at 9am on Thursday, rather than Noon.

[pHolmgren]

As a student on a PNW team, I personally love the district model. Not only does it allow more play time, but also, allows more teams to compete at worlds. In 2014, we wouldn't have qualified without the district model. Overall, there seems to be less stress put on district events making them 100*more fun. All in all, I'm glad we have the district model and I would encourage the rest of FIRST to be part of it.

[novamx3]

I must chime in briefly: as the lead mentor for 2502 I must address the message and tone of one of our alumni:

Jon, (and everyone else) Team 2502 absolutely values the MSHSL State tournament and I understand 100% why the system is set up the way it is. Some teams can't afford to attend 2 events... It's completely unfair to give those teams with larger budgets an advantage. I believe that districts would help this problem and make teams better. But I can tell you we were upset when we were "on the bubble" last year and didn't make it to State.

[FRCTeam3293]

Originally Posted by novamx3

Jon, (and everyone else) Team 2502 absolutely values the MSHSL State tournament and I understand 100% why the system is set up the way it is. Some teams can't afford to attend 2 events... It's completely unfair to give those teams with larger budgets an advantage. I believe that districts would help this problem and make teams better. But I can tell you we were upset when we were "on the bubble" last year and didn't make it to State.

Totally agree. The OtterBots have set the MSHSL States as our goal every year since inception. Very meaningful to us. Looks like we will be on the wrong side of the bubble this year, and disappointed, which speaks to the value of the event to us.

[novamx3]

Also, you are 100% right about the qualification matches... We were lucky that 2883 valued our shooter's accuracy and they did their scouting. We should have adjusted our play in the qualification matches and our drive team is well aware. There is nothing wrong with this game, it was our team's strategy in qualification matches that was lacking.

[Lil' Lavery]

If you really want to increase the number of matches teams play, the solution isn't districts or cycle times or longer hours. The solution it to put more teams on the field at once.

In the 2v2 alliance era, 6-8 play regionals were the standard. Yes, your $5000 could buy you as few as 6 matches. When 3v3 was introduced in 2005, we instantly saw plays per event increase.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

If you really want to increase the number of matches teams play, the solution isn't districts or cycle times or longer hours. The solution it to put more teams on the field at once.

In the 2v2 alliance era, 6-8 play regionals were the standard. Yes, your $5000 could buy you as few as 6 matches. When 3v3 was introduced in 2005, we instantly saw plays per event increase.

Minnesota could pioneer the idea of suspending a field 20 feet above the other field and have true double decker events.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Minnesota could pioneer the idea of suspending a field 20 feet above the other field and have true double decker events.

Give this man a cookie. I think we've got the solution!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Minnesota could pioneer the idea of suspending a field 20 feet above the other field and have true double decker events.

So they might be able to run a QUAD regional? Now there's an idea.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by EricH

So they might be able to run a QUAD regional? Now there's an idea.

Listen man, I'm just trying to help avoid the decimation of FRC in MN that would occur if they switch to a district system.

[AlexanderTheOK]

To chime in on the issue of not reaching enough potential volunteers and the advertisement of this need for volunteers, I'm one of those people that hasn't volunteered for a single event. I have friends who volunteer quite often. I personally didn't however because I simply thought that my time was needed elsewhere more than it was at the event...

Until I overheard said friends freaking out a week before my local regional, because there was no one to do x, y, and z at the event... Until I spent the entirety of the regional in the stands because the programmers had everything working nearly flawlessly and didn't actually need me to be free as a mentor.

I was, until the build season ended and events started happening this year, entirely unaware that volunteer supply was an issue. This is after 4 years, going on 5 in FIRST.

Of course now that I am aware of the problem I can be a part of the solution, for both offseason events and the next year.

The issue is however, that I feel I'm a part of a large group of oblivious people who might have the time and energy, but are simply unaware of the level of need. I'm going to be entirely honest. I don't read my email very thoroughly. There was likely an email asking for volunteers, but it got lost in the pile of emails that FIRST sends out that I frankly don't have the attention span to read.

So how do we get the oblivious shmucks like me to actually know about this?
That wasn't a rhetorical question, I seriously just don't know.

My best guess would be a more personal word of mouth approach to advertising the positions, talking to teams directly, and having the lead mentors of said teams place emphasis on this aspect of FIRST, but I suck at organizing things, so that's all this is, a guess. Maybe this is already being done, and I'm simply more oblivious than I thought. I don't know, the fact remains that people like me exist, and solving this problem could get areas closer to being able to support more small events.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by AlexanderTheOK

I was, until the build season ended and events started happening this year, entirely unaware that volunteer supply was an issue.

And that's a problem with almost any organization. When my sons played soccer ages ago, we went to practices and went to games. There was a referee at the game, we expected that. Kind of like the league supplies uniforms and soccer balls, the league supplies referees.

It wasn't until talking with my sons' coach (who was also a ref) that I began to appreciate the human aspect of it. You can buy equipment (whether that be uniforms or FRC fields). You can rent venues (athletic fields or regional sites). But you can't "buy" the people. Or it would be prohibitively expensive to do so.

When my sons wanted to take the soccer referee course, I went along with them. I did it for 16 years before my knee and ankle gave out. And that led directly to me becoming a ref for FLL and FRC. (Believe me, the worst mentor arguing a call in FRC is a whole lot more GP than the average soccer coach.)

I don't want to be telling other areas what they should do regarding switching to districts. There are unique situations everywhere that will require a lot of work before areas can change to districts, if that is even what they want. Every area needs to evaluate more than just number of plays per dollar. But if number of volunteers per event is one of the things that is lacking - and we have difficulties with that in some FiM events - the only way to fix that is to ask for more volunteers. And give them reasonable pathways for getting trained to become better volunteers.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

... decimation of FRC in MN...

Why was my first thought, "that's an anagram for medication?"

[maxnz]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Minnesota could pioneer the idea of suspending a field 20 feet above the other field and have true double decker events.

If the Duluth regionals do this, then it would be a double DECCer event.