Student or Adult Coach

[Chief Hedgehog]

What is this program about?

For me it is about creating an environment for students to further their own development. This program is also so advanced (compared to many other HS programs) that the mentor role is crucial.

It took me a few seasons, but I do understand the need for some teams to place an adult in the Drive Coach position. Depending on how the students adapt, it may be best to have an adult in the Coach role. I also understand that some teams have an adult in this role because 'that is how we have always done it'.

Neither is wrong. I have been fortunate to have very mature students that understand the game at a level better than most mentors. I have also always coached my students up to take these leadership roles.

All of that stated, I would not hesitate to put in one of my mentors as the Drive Coach if I felt it was warranted. However, I have not reached that point yet - and that is a kudos to my drive team.

[NShep98]

I personally am in the "Do what's best for your team" boat. There's a reason this poll is going so evenly.

As far as I am aware, my team has always had a student coach, for reasons I won't bother repeating. Our rule, though, is that the coach is required to have been one of the two drivers in previous years. This year is my first time driving, and the coach is a senior who was the main driver last year. It makes me feel better to have a coach with such direct experience in my role.

[Citrus Dad]

We've made it to Einstein with both a student (2013) and adult (2014, 2015) coach. I used to be strongly for a student coach but now I can see the advantage FOR OTHER TEAMS ON THE ALLIANCE of an adult coach. It helps that we have one of the best adult coaches going, so I can see what's an almost optimal set up. An adult coach first commands more respect from the other teams (and probably it better at recognizing when other teams have better leadership at the moment). And second an adult coach is probably better able to step back and look at the entire alliance. Plus the continual experience allows the adult coach to develop lessons learned.

We give our students substantial drive coach experience in the fall at off season events. We run multiple bots and usually go to 3 events. We also try to give our young mentors that experience as well.

But I don't have a strong opinion on which is preferred. I'd rather see an insightful student coach than an inept adult coach. And student coaching is a great opportunity to develop leadership. I would hope that an adult drive coach might recognize budding leadership skills and step aside when they recognize a great talent.

[blaze8902]

Originally Posted by seg9585

When dealing with other teams in your alliance, things can get a little heated sometimes about which team feels their strategy for the round is optimal.

The above quote is one of the main reasons I like having an adult coach.

A few years ago a student from my team, who was the scouting/strategy lead, got in to an argument with a much older team's coach about strategy.

Now, my student kept a cool head, but the other team's mentor - who was at least in their 40s - continued to escalate the situation.

Eventually I decided I needed to step in and deescalate, but my attempts at calming the other man down and reaching a compromise only made him more angry. He had the mindset that younger teams should just shut up and obey more experienced teams.
Things got so bad that eventually the other team's coach actually yelled curses at me.

Eventually, though, I managed to clam him down, but I was forced to cave in in terms of strategy.

The thing that really bothered me is the fact that I'm a very young mentor, and I had no identification. As far as he was concerned I could have been a student.

And while I'm glad that I managed to deescalate the situation eventually, let me just say that I'm not as confident that I would have been able to keep cool had a 40 year old man cursed out one of my students.

As a side note, my student was right and the older team single-handedly lost us the match. Afterwards two of the students from the other team came to our pit and apologized to my Scout Lead and myself. I told them they had nothing to apologize for, because it was solely their mentor who acted well outside the bounds of GP, however I did express to them that I thought it was very mature of them to apologize on his behalf.

TL;DR: Got cursed at by a much older mentor during a strategy meeting.

Anyway, that whole story is my way of pointing out that sometimes FRC competitions can be really stressful. While I know most of my students can maintain a level head, it makes me feel more secure knowing that our Lead Mentor is right there by the students in case situations similar to my experience arise.

[Koko Ed]

We prefer to use a student coach. It gives the kids a sense of ownership.

[Dibit1010]

We use a student coach- many times student know each other better, and there can be a less totalitarian attitude about what the drive coach says. Now if anything even starts to go awry off the field a mentor immediately steps in

[AJOHNSON]

5099 coach here, I'm a student. In my opinion it's very frustrating to work with adult coaches because they tend to dominate the alliance. Remember it's an event for high school students keep them on the drive team.

[DonRotolo]

tl;dr.

[Anupam Goli]

I actually have an interesting story to share with our experience this past weekend.

We usually run a student coach, since the mentors most involved with match strategy are college students, and as such our availability to attend competition can be questionable. However, we find it helpful to have a strategy mentor be there to direct the drive team and coach on how the upcoming matches will flow. Our drive coach was coaching his first official event (not counting off-season events), and was getting his feet wet with the strategy and coordination involved in stronghold. The first few matches were... rough, to say the least. The drive team was frustrated, and wanted our match strategy mentor to coach for a match or two, and have the student coach observe and learn. However, we kept our student coach in, but kept giving feedback on how he can improve his coaching skill and match timing. We reviewed match footage with him and the drivers to fix any bad decision making that was occuring.

By the time eliminations rolled around, our student coach was doing very well and was able to communicate with alliance partners and the human player. His coaching was crucial for our low cycle times and drivers' success.

I stand by the saying that teams need to do what's best for them and their mission, but if you want to run a student coach, consider having a mentor for the drive team and coaching, and look at ways to help your student coach grow and get better.

[evanperryg]

We have an adult drive coach. He's a former FRC driver himself, with 4 years of experience on a very successful Florida team. He's got a cool head, communicates effectively with other teams, and his experience means he really understands what it's like to be behind the controls. These traits aren't just hard to find in a student, they're hard to find in anybody. If a student is the most qualified to coach, it should be a student coach. If a mentor is the most qualified to coach, it should be the mentor.

[aovozza3]

I have been fortunate to be a drive coach both as a student team member and now as a mentor. From my experience, whether your drive coach should be a student or mentor depends on the specific dynamics of your team.

For example, if you have a small team and an individual student who has a solid understanding of the game/rules, then a student drive coach may be best for your team. However, if your team is larger and more students are interested in being on the drive team, I feel an adult mentor would be better suited to handle the pressure of both working with other teams and within the drive team.

One thing I make sure to emphasize with my students is that student or adult drive coaches do not have inherent advantages or disadvantages. If a team has a student drive coach, that does not mean they will inherently have weaker strategy abilities. Additionally, an adult drive coach does not automatically mean that students are not involved with their team's design/strategy. Each team has different student dynamics, thus we should maintain respect for other drive teams regardless of the age of their drive coach.

[mjc49]

Since I've been involved with my team, we have always had a student as drive coach. That said, going forward we will have an adult coach on standby in the event someone to help manage situations with other adults.

Being a drive coach is a leadership position on our team and we provide leadership training. Dealing with an aggressive mentor from another team is asking a lot from a student so having someone available for them to help in that situation is teaching moment. In most cases, adult drive coaches are doing a great job, but there are cases where they are way to intense and intimidate students.

[IronicDeadBird]

One thing that I don't like about this entire scenario is that a lot of heat is being generated around students or coaches feeling uncomfortable in a situation where we all are supposed to be working together.
If people are on the same team nobody should feel bad for trying to help but a lot of the time thats how I end up feeling when in Q.

[beurwonderwall]

As a the student drive coach of my drive team, I totally think it depends on the dynamic of your team. For my team, we've always had a student coach, but that doesn't mean we're right-or wrong. This weekend at the St Joseph District in Michigan, I was very impressed by 3620's drive coach. He's a mentor, but he does a very nice job in the role, without being overbearing in strategy sessions.

I think that a student can also become overbearing in situations, so it is extremely dependent on how your team functions.

So, whether your drive coach is a mentor or student, I think it is very important that your coach is polite, strong-willed, and knowledgeable when it comes to the game.

It all really comes down to exemplifying the qualities of FIRST; not how old your coach is.

[IronicDeadBird]

Well I quoted someone and they deleted the comment this is hawkard...