Team Update 16 (2016)

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Bryce2471

How will the alliance colors be decided for playoff matches?

1: Red, Red, Red
2: Red, Red, Blue
3: Red, Blue, Blue
4: Red, Blue, Red
5: Blue, Blue, Red
6: Blue, Blue, Blue
7: Blue, Red, Blue
8: Blue, Red, Red

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Bryce2471

Why is no one talking about this?

How will the alliance colors be decided for playoff matches?

We went into semifinals as the 7th seed. Under the old rules, we would have had blue bumpers. We told our partners we will stay in blue and our opponents queued up in red. Then the FTAs told us to switch. Then we cited the rule and we switched. Then they figured out the FMS was operating under the 2014 rules and they could not manually switch us so we switched BACK to red.

We figured out it was one of the many cases where somebody probably copy-pasted 2015 to 2016 and this case did not have a lot of instances where this would have happened until this week. 1v8 and 2v7 will always send a red alliance to semis and 3v6 and 4v5 will always send a blue alliance to semis. 1/8v4/5 will always send red to finals and 2/7v3/6 will always send a blue team to finals, just like in the olden days.

I feel really bad because everyone at the event did their jobs right (our drive coach read the rule to the head ref, the head ref agreed with him, and the FTAs tried to accommodate based on the rules, and field staff communicated the changes as fast as possible) but we all ended up contributing to a loss of about 20 minutes of time (the event still finished on time though, which was AWESOME)

[Jeffrafa]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

If refs see it this way I don't have a problem with the rule.

Unfortunately the rule could also be read that fouls can be called if both teams are touching a boulder that is on the middle line, even if neither bot enters the volume above the midline.

If neither robot enters the volume of the midline, then G13 has not been broken, plain and simple. The revised description of the consequences for a violation does not effect the basic rule (breaking the mid-line volume).

I can't find the video of it, but I saw this happen at a week 1 event - a red robot drove across the midline and pushed a stationary blue robot several inches transitively through a boulder (no direct robot contact). Only 1 foul was called due to how the rule had been written. I was a ref in week 2, and we discussed this scenario prior. We decided since R13 did not mention transitive contact, we would enforce it the same way as was done in week 1. I'm glad to see the loophole closed, as it preserves the intent of the violation.

[GDB]

I'll be honest, a lot of teams were not just doing this because 254 or 1678 were using overhead cameras on poles. Some teams at the Arizona North Regional were doing it because they specifically knew there was no height restriction. Now that this rule is implemented, a lot can agree the safety is definitely more concerning than the advantage over another.

[jds2001]

Originally Posted by Jeffrafa

I can't find the video of it, but I saw this happen at a week 1 event - a red robot drove across the midline and pushed a stationary blue robot several inches transitively through a boulder (no direct robot contact). Only 1 foul was called due to how the rule had been written. I was a ref in week 2, and we discussed this scenario prior. We decided since R13 did not mention transitive contact, we would enforce it the same way as was done in week 1. I'm glad to see the loophole closed, as it preserves the intent of the violation.

I was also a ref in week 2, and this exact thing happened. We asked about it, and got a response of no automatic cross. I guess since it happened (apparently more than once), it caused them to look at it and change the rule to something that more closely matches the intent. A good change, IMO.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Boe

I am somewhat disappointed we don't get to see how high they would have ended up being at the Edward Jones Dome.

I imagine it would've looked similar to this:
https://youtu.be/oiMaHpT7bvg

[KosmicKhaos]

Well it would appear that our periscope will now be modified to be 8'8". Benefits of using a pool slimmer pole is that it allows us to adjust height easily.

[Jared Russell]

This is a good change.

[rich2202]

I don't think boulder wars is the genesis of the G13 change. I am guessing this is more likely the problem:

Two opposing robots line up on each side of a boulder. At the start of Autonomous, One robot drives in the wrong direction, and hits the boulder, which then hits the other robot. The other robot was not going after the boulder, but was going for a cross. The other robot is now knocked off it's path and cannot complete the crossing.

Since the offending robot did not "touch" the other robot, there was not a G13 - Contact of opponent robot foul.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

This is a good change.

This is exactly the change Travis spoke about the very first time I saw him setting up your camera pole.
Whether 11'8" is an optimal solution, it is a solution none the less. I'd say objective achieved!

[Jessica Boucher]

Originally Posted by Boe

I am somewhat disappointed we don't get to see how high they would have ended up being at the Edward Jones Dome.

As the person who typically files the medical incident reports in the Dome, I am pleased.

[Jon Stratis]

Seems the height limit was chosen to be the same as the top of the flag on top of the tower. So, those on the field will have a nice, handy visual reference to know if your camera is too high!

[mwmac]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Seems the height limit was chosen to be the same as the top of the flag on top of the tower. So, those on the field will have a nice, handy visual reference to know if your camera is too high!

What are these flags you speak of? None in sight on the towers at AZ North.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by mwmac

What are these flags you speak of? None in sight on the towers at AZ North.

They're supposed to be up or down based on who's tower it is (or if it's been captured).

Apparently they were a tad late getting out to the fields.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by EricH

They're supposed to be up or down based on who's tower it is (or if it's been captured).

Apparently they were a tad late getting out to the fields.

And a tad broken... the solenoids on ours were tripping circuit breakers.