[FUN] FRC Top 40 Week 2 and Rant About Replays

[Rivet Man]

Hi Boltman,

Glad to hear you'll be trying again next year! Hope the eye exam today goes well, people on here seem to think you need one...

I had a question about that one rookie team you keep talking about. You said they were low goal, had a strong shot, and were hard to play defense on? Could you help me understand how this happens. I thought a low robot would have a straight shot that is easy to block if they are low that's why I thought tall teams would be good this year. Thanks for explaining this my fastener friend.

Best Regards,
RM

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Rivet Man

Hi Boltman,

Glad to hear you'll be trying again next year! Hope the eye exam today goes well, people on here seem to think you need one...

I had a question about that one rookie team you keep talking about. You said they were low goal, had a strong shot, and were hard to play defense on? Could you help me understand how this happens. I thought a low robot would have a straight shot that is easy to block if they are low that's why I thought tall teams would be good this year. Thanks for explaining this my fastener friend.

Best Regards,
RM

What makes 5817 especially dangerous is their swerve drive (when its working) they can move very fast in any direction once in goal site they lock onto HG or have a straight shot at LG boom its in, near or far anywhere. They also have a strong enough shot most defenses will get broken trying to block them.

They were paired with 1323 in eliminations and many times both of them simultaneously hit the HG and 1323 was on of my top HG scouted bots they just need more consistency.... 5817 once locked in does not seem to ever miss and its a straight trajectory to the goal.

The only reason they did not rank higher was their multiple issues with their swerve.

I would put them (when working ) right behind 254, 1678 and on par with 973 when they are on so that is really good HG company to keep. The swerve though makes them in ways harder to defend sometimes if you cannot move like they do.

Actually I am surprised 1678 and 254 alliance won so handily in Finals versus 1323 and 5817s alliance but I did not see it first hand as we were packing up. Probably I gather it might have been a boulder starvation thing only so many boulders with high flying HG bots.

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by Boltman

What makes 5817 especially dangerous is their swerve drive (when its working) they can move very fast in any direction once in goal site they lock onto HG or have a straight shot at LG boom its in. They also have a strong enough shot most defenses will get broken trying to block them.

They were paired with 1323 in eliminations and many times both of them simultaneously hit the HG and 1323 was on of my top HG scouted bots they just need more consistency.... 5817 once locked in does not seem to ever miss and its a straight trajectory to the goal.

The only reason they did not rank higher was their issues with their swerve.

I would put them (when working ) right behind 254, 1678 and on par with 973 when they are on so that is really good HG company to keep. The swerve though makes them in ways harder to defend sometimes if you cannot move like they do.

Actually I am surprised 1678 ans 254 won so handily in Finals but I did not see it first hand as we were packing up. Probably I gather a boulder starvation thing only so many boulders with high flying HG bots.

They were just an extremely OP alliance IMHO. 3970 harassed us quite a bit, and with only one wheel working in finals, it was impossible to evade them. However, we did manage to challenge with one wheel, and also set up a screen for 1323 once.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

3970 harassed us quite a bit

This cannot be understated.

3970's defense effectiveness was incredible. They kept our opponents to less than 100 pts in every one of our playoff matches, which helped keep our victory margins high.

I was very impressed with how focused 3970 was throughout the playoffs. I personally really enjoyed working with them!

It will be interesting to see how defense evolves as more teams begin to increase their high goal consistency.

-Mike

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

This cannot be understated.

3970's defense effectiveness was incredible. They kept our opponents to less than 100 pts in every one of our playoff matches, which helped keep our victory margins high.

I was very impressed with how focused 3970 was throughout the playoffs. I personally really enjoyed working with them!

It will be interesting to see how defense evolves as more teams begin to increase their high goal consistency.

-Mike

Perfectly said. 3970 is a great team with great people and a great robot. If anybody deserved to win CVR this weekend, it was them. 3970-esque defense will become more and more common as the season goes on, and teams with more versatility in shot strength and position will perform much better than teams who can only shoot from one spot in the courtyard. As more and more teams recognize this, defense will get rougher and rougher. Because of this, I wouldn't be surprised if 254 and 1678 just set the final season high score last week, or if it is set by a powerhouse alliance in the upcoming weeks (2826?).

[sciencenuetzel]

Originally Posted by Tyler Olds

I certainly hoped that you voted and filled out the sheet correctly. Some people do just like 5-10 teams and then put in fake teams or try to manipulate the system in other ways. We catch 95% of it and have a program set up to do so and then I personally manually check it after.

So question... I sort of did this. I can't name the top 25 teams because I don't have time to watch all events or know that much about the teams. This past week I filled out probably the top 15 or so that I could think of from the events that I watched (GTR, Tippecanoe, and CVR) and tried to order them in what I thought was fair.

After that I went and put down team # -1 for the other 10 or so spots that were left.

So because I put down none competing/nonexistent teams does the rest of my poll get thrown out???

[sorry Boltman you weren't on my list but in every other Top 25 poll I will put 5137 down as my "-1"]

[also everytime that I wrote the word poll on here I kept typing pole as I am thinking about how huge a pole 254/1678 have/had]

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by sciencenuetzel

[also everytime that I wrote the word poll on here I kept typing pole as I am thinking about how huge a pole 254/1678 have/had]

254 had the bigger pole.

In the future, I expect more pole parity.

#teampole

-Mike

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Boltman

(when its working)

The number of times you've repeated this when referencing 5817...

We get it. You don't need to keep typing this.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by sciencenuetzel

So question... I sort of did this. I can't name the top 25 teams because I don't have time to watch all events or know that much about the teams. This past week I filled out probably the top 15 or so that I could think of from the events that I watched (GTR, Tippecanoe, and CVR) and tried to order them in what I thought was fair.

After that I went and put down team # -1 for the other 10 or so spots that were left.

So because I put down none competing/nonexistent teams does the rest of my poll get thrown out???

[sorry Boltman you weren't on my list but in every other Top 25 poll I will put 5137 down as my "-1"]

[also everytime that I wrote the word poll on here I kept typing pole as I am thinking about how huge a pole 254/1678 have/had]

^ See virtually no one can list top 25 accurately in any given set of weeks and many will struggle to fill solid selections past 10-15
Top 10 sure otherwise they are just empty blanks filled by teams you may know their # or nonsense

Trying to judge performance cross event is mystifying too as some events are much stronger than others even within a state like CA. I would struggle to accurately rank 3021 "winning HG shooting captain" in SD versus the CVR top field..different types of game play at each event. I saw both events and know how to scout and watched pretty much every game. Put 3021 in CVR mix where do they place?? Not sure until I see it happen. For example defense was much more brutal in SD than CVR so one has to take that into account. But you would not know that unless you saw both events.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Boltman

^ See virtually no one can list top 25 accurately in any given set of weeks and many will struggle to fill solid selections past 10-15
Top 10 sure otherwise they are just empty blanks filled by teams you may know their # or nonsense

I hardly think that just one response on Chief qualifies as something everyone does. For instance, I generally keep up with 2-3 streams on weekends that I can watch, ask around in the chat for a few other "must-sees", then when I run out of teams at around spot 15, I go through events that i didn't watch and just put down the captain of the winning Alliance. Granted, it doesn't appear to cover teams like yours or 5817, but no system is completely perfect.
I'd rather keep the current system though, because it's all in good fun. I suppose if you want to be super official, best-of-the-best, you can start your making your way to IRI

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Doug G

Yeah, I found it kinda funny we got a vote, and we spent a couple of matches in the "tortuga" position at CVR. Goes to show you how making a good looking reveal video can get recognition before you actually compete. Anyhow, we look forward to an improved performance in weeks 4 and 5.

Doug, your robot was so good that you could flip 2 of your alliance robots and have your third play only defense AND still win the match! I don't like those odds when we play you without that handicap.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I hardly think that just one response on Chief qualifies as something everyone does. For instance, I generally keep up with 2-3 streams on weekends that I can watch, ask around in the chat for a few other "must-sees", then when I run out of teams at around spot 15, I go through events that i didn't watch and just put down the captain of the winning Alliance. Granted, it doesn't appear to cover teams like yours or 5817, but no system is completely perfect.
I'd rather keep the current system though, because it's all in good fun. I suppose if you want to be super official, best-of-the-best, you can start your making your way to IRI

There's no way the majority of the participants in the FRCTop25 poll do what you're saying. I'm sure quite a few voters are students on teams who competed that weekend, and I doubt they watched multiple streams and then went around asking for other good teams - they were probably busy with their own events and the like.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

Perfectly said. 3970 is a great team with great people and a great robot. If anybody deserved to win CVR this weekend, it was them. 3970-esque defense will become more and more common as the season goes on, and teams with more versatility in shot strength and position will perform much better than teams who can only shoot from one spot in the courtyard. As more and more teams recognize this, defense will get rougher and rougher. Because of this, I wouldn't be surprised if 254 and 1678 just set the final season high score last week, or if it is set by a powerhouse alliance in the upcoming weeks (2826?).

We were happy to send 3970 to Champs. We had knocked them out of their best previous chance at the 2013 CVR when they had the best bot going there. It was nice redemption for us.

I predicted at the beginning of the year that the high score will be 270. Now I'm pretty sure that's achievable with refinement of auto, climbing and high goal shooting, but it won't happen until Champs.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Boltman

^ See virtually no one can list top 25 accurately in any given set of weeks and many will struggle to fill solid selections past 10-15
Top 10 sure otherwise they are just empty blanks filled by teams you may know their # or nonsense

Good thing teams that deserve to be on here don't actually really care about the poll, they care about their performance. This poll isn't supposed to be some accurate list of the actual best teams in this week. It's for fun. Oh wait the webcast is even called FUN! It's just here to recognize some of the many many great teams that played in the previous week!

Maybe you can start your own show and name it "Serious" where you can spend hours and hours trying to predict and rank the best teams from 1-25 for the very important reason of.... uhhh..... I guess we will get back to you on that one.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

254 had the bigger pole.

In the future, I expect more pole parity.

#teampole

-Mike

I think pole parity has been imposed from above with a new rule.