Flipping Rule

[joeojazz]

Hello at our competition in Midland Michigan this week some robots came close to tipping us over in the playoffs. I was wondering if there were any rules preventing them from doing so, or if there was a penalty if they did.

[nick4130]

That depends on where you are on the field and what time of the game is it. If you look at the centerline district, there's a match were a robot is totally flipped by a defensive bot.

[joeojazz]

Originally Posted by nick4130

That depends on where you are on the field and what time of the game is it. If you look at the centerline district, there's a match were a robot is totally flipped by a defensive bot.

We are in their zone trying to score. Also was their a penalty when this happen couldn't find the video.

[nick4130]

Then, I believe there is no foul unless it's in the last 20 seconds.

[rsisk]

There was a red card issued for flipping a robot during the QF at Seneca yesterday

[joeojazz]

Originally Posted by rsisk

There was a red card issued for flipping a robot during the QF at Seneca yesterday

Was it intentional or how was the robot flipped?

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by joeojazz

Was it intentional or how was the robot flipped?

Robot was playing very tough defense. Had the other robot up on end, backed up, then hit again, causing the tip.

If video ever shows up, it will be here: https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016njtab_qf4m1

[tr6scott]

Originally Posted by rsisk

There was a red card issued for flipping a robot during the QF at Seneca yesterday

At Waterford there was discussion about ours, and I could have seen it being flagged too.

But I think the judge got it right in our case. We were playing hard D, which is allowed by the rules, it was not in the last 20 seconds.

You don't get to score a goal uncontested, because you designed a tippy robot.

[prozack19]

Originally Posted by rsisk

There was a red card issued for flipping a robot during the QF at Seneca yesterday

hey we are the ones who got tipped on our backs.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by rsisk

There was a red card issued for flipping a robot during the QF at Seneca yesterday

Here is the video cued to the incident
https://youtu.be/T4hh_PJwARw?t=21871
After 869 and 1279 got in the tent formation, 1279 continued to drive forward eventually resulting in a tip after some distance. This was judged G24 with incapacitation, so a FOUL and RED CARD. Other near tips in that match where 1279 backed off before finishing the tip were not penalized.

[IronicDeadBird]

My understanding is if you flip a robot or start to flip a robot you have incap'd it and have prevented it from moving, this qualifies as a pin and doing so for an extended period of time is punishable. From the rules on pinning it sounds like you could start a flip and have it down as pinning, however finishing it or having the other robot flip themselves on you isn't covered anywhere in the rules as far as I can tell.

[blackwood]

We didn't need any defensive help flipping our robot. We were able to do it successfully all on our own in the very first match in Arkansas. You can see it at the 1:44 mark in this video. Fortunately it was our only flip of the tournament, things went pretty smoothly after that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGjUA3AsTlo

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

If you hit a robot with a high CoG and it tips, then you clearly do not deserve to be penalized

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

Here is the video cued to the incident
https://youtu.be/T4hh_PJwARw?t=21871
After 869 and 1279 got in the tent formation, 1279 continued to drive forward eventually resulting in a tip after some distance. This was judged G24 with incapacitation, so a FOUL and RED CARD. Other near tips in that match where 1279 backed off before finishing the tip were not penalized.

G24 states that a red card is given "If harm or incapacitation occurs as a result of the strategy"

"harm or incapacitation" could be a matter of interpretation because does incapacitation mean that the robot was broken such that it could not be fixed, or just unable to compete in the current match. The refs were seen discussing the match for several minutes before the red card was announced, so it must not be so automatic.

The rules are not the same every year.

Several years ago in my first year (2013), my first tournament, I was asked to coach a team so I was the rookie. In our first quarter final match we got into a pushing match with another robot. It started to tip so I specifically told the driver to tip it over. In that year, that was a violation of rule G28 which was a technical foul and a yellow card. Therefore we only lost points.

The response from the crowd was mostly negative and I felt rather bad about it for a few days. Bringing it up on the forum I was surprised the response was mostly that the robot game had become wimpy compared to the old days.

But there was also a response that this foul is more Un-GP than most other fouls. I found this dichotomy interesting. What is the psychology of this?

In other sports, fouls are an expected part of the game. In basketball we see strategic fouls even to the point of a foul out. In soccer we see yellow cards and sometimes its for egregious behavior. But we don't see everyone crying about that.

[Richard Wallace]

There was a good example of this in F2 at Lakeview. With about 50 seconds left, 85 and 5980 get into a head-on confrontation in front of the blue tower. BoB wins and the blue bot goes over backwards, out for the rest of the match. You can clearly see the Head Ref calling the foul (the only one assessed against red that match) a second or two later. No yellow card.

That same incident was featured in the Week 2 episode (Season 2 Episode 3) of RoboZone. 2:48.