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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:16
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

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Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Let me get this straight, if my opponents have no vision targeting capability that uses a camera, but instead rely upon a photon cannon to confirm goal alignment, my screen that blocks the photon cannon beam is legal? Next match, my robot is illegal if one of the opponents does have a camera-based targeting system in place.

Clear as mud...
No. Per this Q&A response, if the Lead Robot Inspector determines that a component on your robot is intended to interfere with any robot's ability to sense the high goal, then you will not pass inspection. It has no impact on in match calls.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:20
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Say goodbye to cheesecaking blockers on second picks.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:21
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Say goodbye to cheesecaking blockers on second picks.
RIP Cheesecake
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:22
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

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Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Say goodbye to cheesecaking blockers on second picks.
Also say goodbye to any kind of defense against outerworks shooters.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:25
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

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Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) View Post
Also say goodbye to any kind of defense against outerworks shooters.
Defensive play just moved to the neutral zone....
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Unread 22-03-2016, 15:28
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Defensive play just moved to the neutral zone....
It has always been there, people just haven't been playing it.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:34
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Say goodbye to cheesecaking blockers on second picks.
You can take my blocker... but you can never take my cheesecake!
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Unread 22-03-2016, 18:53
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Say goodbye to cheesecaking blockers on second picks.
Just cheesehole them enough for cameras to be able to see through them.

The solution to a cheese problem is always more cheese.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 19:27
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
Just cheesehole them enough for cameras to be able to see through them.

The solution to a cheese problem is always more cheese.
Are there any teams from Switzerland?
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Unread 22-03-2016, 20:43
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

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Originally Posted by mwmac View Post
Are there any teams from Switzerland?
we do have teams from Wisconsin, at least :v
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:14
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

well thats just dumb why even have a defense element to the game if you might not even be able to use it. Just cross your fingers that all the good shooters switch to photon cannons
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:27
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

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Originally Posted by RoboAlum View Post
well thats just dumb why even have a defense element to the game if you might not even be able to use it. Just cross your fingers that all the good shooters switch to photon cannons
While I disagree with this Q&A response, many sports have an "offense-first" mindset, favoring the offense and punishing the defense with a foul. This kind of mindset being shown in the Q&A is not unprecedented in games like soccer or basketball. They are clearly trying to make the defender's role more difficult because they want to reward the the difficult task of scoring in the high goal - hence the reason R9-C even exists in the first place.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:31
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

Meanwhile I'm over here with with my completely see-through poly-carbonate blocker prototype laughing.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:16
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

The problem with the question is that the GDC is trying to be sensitive to R9, blue box A and C
Quote:
A. Shields, curtains, or any other devices or materials designed or used
to obstruct or limit the vision of any DRIVERS and/or COACHES and/
or interfere with their ability to safely control their ROBOT

C. Any devices or decorations specifically intended to jam or interfere
with the remote sensing capabilities of another ROBOT, including
vision systems, acoustic range finders, sonars, infrared proximity
detectors, etc. (e.g. including imagery on your ROBOT that, to a
reasonably astute observer, mimics the retro-reflective features of the
TOWER described in Section 2.3.1.3 TOWER
So, if the purpose of a robot piece is to block cameras (limit the vision), then it is a violation of R9.

If the purpose is to block shots, then that is ok, as it is an obstacle that robot designers are supposed to take into account.

So, put up an opaque piece of fabric that is supposed to interfere with boulder shooting, and you are fine. If it happens to block vision, so be it.

The rule is intended to prevent a defending robot from intentionally shining a flashlight directly into the camera of the other robot.

As they say: Bad cases make bad law.

Just make sure the robot piece has a purpose other than to interfere with sensing capabilities of the robot.

Quote:
That'll then go on how the LRI or Head Ref interprets the response by the GDC.
IMHO: As an R9 call, that is solely in the LRI's court. In general, G's are for Ref's, and R's are for RI's.

Last edited by rich2202 : 22-03-2016 at 14:19.
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Unread 22-03-2016, 14:20
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Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal

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Originally Posted by rich2202 View Post
The problem with the question is that the GDC is trying to be sensitive to R9, blue box A and C


So, if the purpose of a robot piece is to block cameras (limit the vision), then it is a violation of R9.

If the purpose is to block shots, then that is ok, as it is an obstacle that robot designers are supposed to take into account.

So, put up an opaque piece of fabric that is supposed to interfere with boulder shooting, and you are fine. If it happens to block vision, so be it.

The rule is intended to prevent a defending robot from intentionally shining a flashlight directly into the camera of the other robot.

As they say: Bad cases make bad law.

Just make sure the robot piece has a purpose other than to interfere with sensing capabilities of the robot.
That's your (very reasonable) opinion.

However, the Head Ref at CVR ruled that all 4'6" blockers violated R9, Blue Box A. We had to cut large holes in our blockers to make them legal.

I believe this was a misinterpretation, but the rules and especially the Blue Box is not clear.

-Mike
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