INsight: Indiana State Championships

[HenryBlack]

Wow! An amazing weekend from all teams. Indiana has truly proven how competitive it can be. I look forward to seeing the teams compete and represent their state at worlds.

As for the robots, all I can say is "wow!" We've seen some amazing improvement over the last few weeks. It's a shame more teams from Indiana won't be attending champs this year (like 1741!).

Congratulations to the winners of the event: 1024, 4103, and 1529! I really thought those finals matches were going to be much closer than they were. I think we can attribute that to 1529's out-of-the-blue never-seen-before strategies, though! The way they repeatedly rammed 1501 to knock their treads off was something I never would have thought of. Taking out the alliance captain so they can't compete? Amazing!
At first I thought it was just an accident, but then they did it again during the second match, proving they knew just how to win! Good job again guys, I'm sure you're all proud of that victory!

Congratulations to 868 as well for winning Chairman's! Congrats to 135 for winning Engineering Inspiration! And good luck to 6012, who will be the rookie team representing Indiana! And good luck to all the other teams competing at champs! Again, it's a shame more teams couldn't have gone. I'm sure 234 will be missed this year!

Phenomenal job, Indiana.

[Chas4739]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

I think we can attribute that to 1529's out-of-the-blue never-seen-before strategies, though! The way they repeatedly rammed 1501 to knock their treads off was something I never would have thought of. Taking out the alliance captain so they can't compete? Amazing!
At first I thought it was just an accident, but then they did it again during the second match, proving they knew just how to win! Good job again guys, I'm sure you're all proud of that victory!

G24 Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping, entanglements, or deliberately putting a BOULDER on an opponent’s ROBOT are not allowed.
Violation: FOUL and YELLOW CARD. If harm or incapacitation occurs as a result of the strategy, RED CARD

You do realize that strategies aimed to disable a robot is illegal, and should have resulted in a yellow/red card, right?

[logank013]

Originally Posted by Chas4739

You do realize that strategies aimed to disable a robot is illegal, and should have resulted in a yellow/red card, right?

I don't think the intent of their strategy was to hurt 1501's robot. Knowing their students and the drive coach, that'd never be in the strategy. Hitting them over and over again may have been apart of their strategy but it would have been to cut down 1501's cycle times. Not to make them lose a tread.

[Chas4739]

Originally Posted by logank013

I don't think the intent of their strategy was to hurt 1501's robots. Knowing their students and the drive coach, that'd never be in the strategy. Hitting them over and over again may have been apart of their strategy but it would have been to cut down 1501's cycle times. Not to make them lose a tread.

I want to agree with you and would agree with you if it hadn't happened twice

[Theseusgoats]

I believe they were only going for the pin the first match but then in the second match they may have repeated the gesture in order to disable them. However, the cybercards arent ones to intentionally hurt robots or do foul play. However, I have noticed some bias against 1501 in Indiana, although they had a very very lucky draw in qualifications.

[logank013]

Originally Posted by Chas4739

I want to agree with you and would agree with you if it hadn't happened twice

I'm not sure what you guys saw. Obviously you guys were more observant than we were since it was your robot but harassment is apart of the game. It wouldn't have mattered if it was you or another team. Hitting a team over and over will decrease their cycle time. No matter what alliance they were against, they probably would have done the same thing to them. I'm sorry your tread came off, especially coming from another tread team and the fact I really do like the people on 1501 a lot. But also from being close with our sister school of 1529, I would really, really, really be surprised if their whole reason for hitting you was to make you lose a tread. I could only think it was about slowing cycle time and I'd never think anything else of it until real proof is shown. I'll watch the matches again but that's my opinion on it so far.

[Chas4739]

Originally Posted by logank013

I'm not sure what you guys saw. Obviously you guys were more observant than we were since it was your robot but harassment is apart of the game. It wouldn't have mattered if it was you or another team. Hitting a team over and over will decrease their cycle time. No matter what alliance they were against, they probably would have done the same thing to them. I'm sorry your tread came off, especially coming from another tread team and the fact I really do like the people on 1501 a lot. But also from being close with our sister school of 1529, I would really, really, really be surprised if their whole reason for hitting you was to make you lose a tread. I could only think it was about slowing cycle time and I'd never think anything else of it until real proof is shown. I'll watch the matches again but that's my opinion on it so far.

You make a good point and I'm probably just being biased

[AquaMorph]

Originally Posted by Chas4739

I want to agree with you and would agree with you if it hadn't happened twice

I think if a robot can't handle pretty standard defense played on it, it is not the fault of the robot playing the defense but rather the design of the robot that breaks. I watched both matches and the defense played by 1529 was nothing out of the ordinary.

[bam-bam]

1501 lost the Perry district on a red card for popping 1024's tanks when they played defense.

1529 played similar defense (as in reaching inside the frame perimeter underneath 1501's bumpers), yet no red card was called.... twice.

I'm sure no one intended harm, but I can understand why the finals loss stings a lot.

[iBleedBlue48]

Originally Posted by bam-bam

1501 lost the Perry district on a red card for popping 1024's tanks when they played defense.

1529 played similar defense (as in reaching inside the frame perimeter underneath 1501's bumpers), yet no red card was called.... twice.

I'm sure no one intended harm, but I can understand why the finals loss stings a lot.

Yeah three silvers this season, thankfully the district system was in place and our loss did not stop us from going to worlds!

[bam-bam]

Great weather, great venue, great people, great robots, great matches, great.... Well, everything.

I'm so incredibly surprised to see how many teams managed to add a consistent high goal shot. From off the top of my head.... 447, 1720, 5484, 3147... It speaks a lot when when of the top shooting robots in 4982 falls all the way to 7th pick.

Kokomo's so wonderful! The Memorial Gym was a great place to play the state championship. I hope Indiana FIRST brings the event back to Kokomo next year. Thanks to 45, 292, and 3940 for hosting.

Congrats to the state champions 4103-1024-1529, in particular to 1529. When I left the team, all that were left was 4 mentors and 11 or so students... which whittled down to 1 mentor and 7 students the following year. To go from that to winning their first blue banner in their first finals.... I never thought I would be able to see it live. Here's to a brighter future.

Congrats to 461 and 1747 advancing to world champs. You make Purdue proud.

I'll echo Peyton's words. The fact that 4982, 234, 1741, 71, 3940, 5403, 3176..... Well, too many to name, won't advance is sad. The first four in particular would do incredibly well at a regional.

Congrats to 868 (Chairman's), 135 (EI), and 6012 (RAS).

Congrats to all the alliances for incredible matches. It was very fun to watch all the interesting strategies put into play. Low goal then double capture (234-71-1741), drafting a team with no ball control (461-1747-3176), to the top alliances (1501-868-447 and 4103-1024-1529). I have no idea how 1529 and 447 were left for the final two.

EDIT: And thank you to the wonderful queuers I worked with this weekend. This was something I enjoyed doing greatly!

[HenryBlack]

Finals Match 1: https://youtu.be/fwnnv3AKi8I
Finals Match 2: https://youtu.be/CDKZ8zo4ubA

While you might just see simple defense, I see a coordinated strategy by the CyberCards! At first, it seems like it might have been a happy accident in the first match. Perhaps it was! But a second time? In two matches? Too strategic to be an accident!

Notice how in the second match, 1524 allows 447 to slip into the courtyard in order to wait for 1501... Strategic!

1501 had previously had little to no issues with their treads before the finals! And then twice in two matches!

What is odd, however, is this was extremely similar to Finals Match 3 of Perry Meridian! Take a look!: https://youtu.be/L8mz-pHRbJ8
Ramming the side of a robot to play defense in the neutral zone... Looks exactly the same!

The key difference being... 1501 was red-carded and disqualified! For extending into the frame perimeter and causing damage to 1024... Wait a second... Isn't that what 1529 did to 1501? Twice?

[logank013]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

Finals Match 1: https://youtu.be/fwnnv3AKi8I
Finals Match 2: https://youtu.be/CDKZ8zo4ubA

While you might just see simple defense, I see a coordinated strategy by the CyberCards! At first, it seems like it might have been a happy accident in the first match. Perhaps it was! But a second time? In two matches? Too strategic to be an accident!

Notice how in the second match, 1524 allows 447 to slip into the courtyard in order to wait for 1501... Strategic!

1501 had previously had little to no issues with their treads before the finals! And then twice in two matches!

What is odd, however, is this was extremely similar to Finals Match 3 of Perry Meridian! Take a look!: https://youtu.be/L8mz-pHRbJ8
Ramming the side of a robot to play defense in the neutral zone... Looks exactly the same!

The key difference being... 1501 was red-carded and disqualified! For extending into the frame perimeter and causing damage to 1024... Wait a second... Isn't that what 1529 did to 1501? Twice?

Sorry it seems like I'm defending 1529 so much. I love 1501 and 1529 but 1529 had many reasons to target 1501. They had the best high goal average on the alliance. They were tall. And last of all, they were the team that would have been most affected by slowing cycle times from impact. I find your targeting at 1529 not very well thought out with inconclusive evidence.

Edit: After watching match 2 again, 1529 hit 447 as well. They weren't just targeting 1501. Their goal was to slow cycle times. In the first match, 1529 hit 1501 3 times and the tread came off. In the second match, they hit 1501 2 or 3 times when their tread popped off. If you look at the head ref, he is counting pin seconds. 1529 was obviously not trying to pin 1501 seeing as they never really pinned them for more than 2 seconds which is very normal.

Also, the fact that the wonderful referee crew didn't seem to even consider a card tells me what 1529 was doing was probably very legal. The referee crew in IN has been amazing and they really knows their rules. They would have easily been able to pick up on a strategy aimed at intentional harm.

[HenryBlack]

Originally Posted by logank013

Also, the fact that the wonderful referee crew didn't seem to even consider a card tells me what 1529 was doing was probably very legal. The referee crew in IN has been amazing and they really knows their rules. They would have easily been able to pick up on a strategy aimed at intentional harm.

For the untrained eye, could you please tell me what 1501 did in Finals 3 of Perry Meridian that looked like they wanted to intentionally harm 1024? Especially when compared to the finals matches of State Champs!

[AquaMorph]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

For the untrained eye, could you please tell me what 1501 did in Finals 3 of Perry Meridian that looked like they wanted to intentionally harm 1024? Especially when compared to the finals matches of State Champs!

I went back and watched that match and I don't think that deserved a red card but the rules leave that decision to the head referee. So that's why calls can be so inconsistent from event to event.