INsight: Indiana State Championships

[logank013]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

For the untrained eye, could you please tell me what 1501 did in Finals 3 of Perry Meridian that looked like they wanted to intentionally harm 1024? Especially when compared to the finals matches of State Champs!

Look at finals match 3. Look at 111 seconds left. 1501's whole left front corner is inside of 1024's robot. This by rule is a red card foul. Intentional? Absolutely not. This is because 1501's bumpers are high. 1529's robot is super low and never reached inside of 1501's robot. The card on 1501 at Perry was because of reaching inside of their robot. Not because of intentional harm! Not to sound rude but you aren't understanding the rules correctly. Reaching inside of a robot and playing tough defense are two very very different things. End of story.

[Edxu]

From HenryBlack's videos, I think that both hits are legal. While it's pretty hard to make a line between "their robot driving up onto yours while you defend them" and "you drove under their robot", I think that in the spirit of an offense-oriented game, 1529's defense was well-played and legal.

As discussed earlier in the thread by Logank, 1501 was the powerhouse team on the alliance, so 1529 was well-justified in trying to slow the cycle down as much as possible.

[Theseusgoats]

1529 was definetly trying to slow down cycle times, it's just that 1501 was the best shooter on the field and so they were priority.

[IndySam]

I was standing right next to the field and what I saw was good hard defense. If you notice the damage happens not when 1529 hits hard but simply when 1501 is pushed sideways. The hard hits occur only after 1501 was damaged and could no longer get out of the way.

There is no way that 1529 intention was to disable 1501.

[RTFM2016]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

Congratulations to the winners of the event: 1024, 4103, and 1529! I really thought those finals matches were going to be much closer than they were. I think we can attribute that to 1529's out-of-the-blue never-seen-before strategies, though! The way they repeatedly rammed 1501 to knock their treads off was something I never would have thought of. Taking out the alliance captain so they can't compete? Amazing!
At first I thought it was just an accident, but then they did it again during the second match, proving they knew just how to win! Good job again guys, I'm sure you're all proud of that victory!

You must make your team so proud. You don't come off as bitter at all. I bet you their sleeping just fine, while you (probably) and I are still awake thinking about what might have been.

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

I believe they were only going for the pin the first match but then in the second match they may have repeated the gesture in order to disable them. However, the cybercards arent ones to intentionally hurt robots or do foul play. However, I have noticed some bias against 1501 in Indiana, although they had a very very lucky draw in qualifications.

Bold claim. I'd love to see your evidence at how there was any bias against 1501. Because, you know, every referee has it out for that poor little team from Huntington so much that built a world-class robot that made it to finals at 3 events that their team apparently can't be proud of. It's not like any other team in the state got called for a G24 red card earlier in the year, say at an event like Tippecanoe? Darn referees, always hating on all those good teams...

Originally Posted by bam-bam

1501 lost the Perry district on a red card for popping 1024's tanks when they played defense.

1529 played similar defense (as in reaching inside the frame perimeter underneath 1501's bumpers), yet no red card was called.... twice.

I'm sure no one intended harm, but I can understand why the finals loss stings a lot.

Again, a bold claim. I'd love to see your evidence at how there was any contact inside the frame perimeter against 1501. Let me guess, you were watching a webcast from the comfort of your home. And you had a better view than the head referee, who had the interaction happen right in front of him. I look forward to your screen-capture (or photoshopped image) showing 1529 magically extending their arm (which was facing the opposite direction) under 1501.

Originally Posted by Chas4739

You do realize that strategies aimed to disable a robot is illegal, and should have resulted in a yellow/red card, right?

If you're going to quote a rule, I'd suggest you include the entire rule (e.g. the blue box), like so:



With the addition of the blue box, damage is specifically defined to outlaw deliberate or damaging contact inside of the frame perimeter.

For those who feel "damage" should include the type of contact demonstrated by 1529, per the letter of the law, see below:



/*SARCASM ALERT, I REPEAT, SARCASM ALERT*/
/*CONTENTS MAY BE TOO HOT FOR SOME TO HANDLE*/

Note to self: Create 2017 robot structure out of Styrofoam. Complain when robot breaks from contact. Get all the red cards. Win all the events. If event not won, complain loudly and publicly.

/*WE RETURN TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED POST*/

I'd love to see you all volunteer as referees and get a view from the other side, but from your posts, I'd be more willing to bet that you couldn't handle it. (Queue "Oh no she/he didn't" soundbite)

Piece of advice / TLDR:
"Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt"

[Taylor]

Over the last decade plus, I have enjoyed working with 1501 on many projects. Whether it was allying with them at events, championing STEM at the Indiana Statehouse together, scrambling to fix field issues at the CAGE Match, or serving together on the IndianaFIRST board, there's no question our teams have a long history of being #friendswithrobots. I personally hold no other team in higher regard than THRUST. I'm good friends with a few of their alumni, and I know for a fact that they.do.things.right. Heck, my eyes still water when I think about Dr. Flowers on bended knee, presenting Chris Elston with his well-deserved WFFA at the 2011 BMR.

To suggest that our team would target 1501 (or any team in the world) and intentionally cause damage to their machine is hurtful, and, honestly, preposterous.

Originally Posted by RTFM2016

Again, a bold claim. I'd love to see your evidence at how there was any contact inside the frame perimeter against 1501. Let me guess, you were watching a webcast from the comfort of your home. And you had a better view than the head referee, who had the interaction happen right in front of him.

bam-bam, or as I like to call him, Rei, was a field queuer at the event. So, he actually had a much better view of the match than 99% of the world.
Rei was a Southport student, a 1529 member, his first two years of high school. When his family moved to the north side of the state, I worked with 1501 mentors to make sure his transition between teams was smooth and while I was sad to lose a key team member, I was happy for Rei that he had a chance to work with a team that has a long history of Doing It Right, and I was ecstatic for him that he got to be on a team that took home a blue banner in 2012. So if you're going to make nasty comments about people making unfounded claims without all the information, I suggest you first get a mirror.

[Peyton Yeung]

I think the level of competitiveness in Indiana was unfounded this year. Losing our first semifinal match with a score of 192 to 180 was pretty impressive. Also losing a couple of qual matches with a score of 130 was impressive as well. Overall the intensity of the event was unprecedented in Indiana and I'm hopeful that it continues on for next year.

The fact that Indiana is only sending 10 total teams is a little rough as there are many great robots/teams that deserve to go.

[bam-bam]

You all are correct. 1529 never physically extended in the frame perimeter, and that was how I worded my post. I won't correct my OP, but I'll clarify here.

To give a small disclaimer: no, I am not associated with any of the teams at the moment in my sig, including 1529, 1501, and 461. This was all my opinion.

Yes, Taylor is correct. I was on the field, queuing. I had a direct look at how 1501's threads came off. I don't have any proof except for Taylor's words, a green sharpie marker, and a highlighter, so.... take that as you will.

I had thought initially that 1529 had popped the tracks off by contacting the tracks when 1501's and 1529's drivebases aligned fairly closely. 1501 had a small clearance between the frame perimeter planes (bumpers) and tracks, so touching the tracks would mean technically passing the frame perimeter. 1529 was able to do this due to how low the bumpers were, and did contact the tracks several times while 1501 was immobilized. I was surprised to see no red card called. If anything, it was an accident.

What happened at Perry is relevant here, since I brought it up.... 1501 had played defense against 1024, popped one of their tanks with a corner of a bumper, and red carded their alliance that match. The score showed that 1501 would have won if not for that fault. If anything, it was an accident.

See how similar the two circumstances are? I'm just saying I know quite a few people on 1501 were frustrated at this. The refs were fantastic with their jobs, and the end of the day, it's the final call. I can't speak for 1501 as a whole, but I'm okay with that.

That was the meaning I had meant to convey. No attacks meant to be made.

[Road Rash]

Originally Posted by RTFM2016

Piece of advice / TLDR:
"Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt"

I've used a very similar quote as my standard forum signature for years.

EDIT: You should really consider following your own advice after I read the quote below:

Originally Posted by Taylor

So if you're going to make nasty comments about people making unfounded claims without all the information, I suggest you first get a mirror.

[Carl C]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

I think we can attribute that to 1529's out-of-the-blue never-seen-before strategies, though! The way they repeatedly rammed 1501 to knock their treads off was something I never would have thought of. Taking out the alliance captain so they can't compete? Amazing!

This kind of backhanded compliment is not in the spirit of gracious professionalism and rather disappointing to see. Whether or not the defense was legal or justified is up to the discretion of the referees and it is unfair to everyone involved to imply a lack of moral character in any of the involved teams.

[Sitton323]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Theseusgoats]

Also, could we just stop complaining already? The call was controversial but 1501 and 868 made it through anyway. The only team really affected was 447 who deserved to go through less than 1529.

[Hope O'Connor]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

Also, could we just stop complaining already? The call was controversial but 1501 and 868 made it through anyway. The only team really affected was 447 who deserved to go through less than 1529.

I don't think that's very fair of you to say who is more "deserving" of going through or not. Both 447 and 1529 played really well so that wasn't necessary to say.

[Theseusgoats]

Originally Posted by Hope O'Connor

I don't think that's very fair of you to say who is more "deserving" of going through or not. Both 447 and 1529 played really well so that wasn't necessary to say.

Sorry if I came off rude, I only meant to say that as an alliance, 1529 seemed to have a stronger strategy than 447. Overall they were just more effective in fulfilling their role.

[efoote868]

I'm disappointed for losing in the finals at a super competitive district championship, but that's how it goes. I don't think armchair/bleacher refereeing does much good, the referees were right there to see what happened, they discussed the game play and made their call.

Congratulations to 4103, 1024 and 1529 on your impressive game play, I'm looking forward to playing with you or against you on Einstein this year

It's also impressive that the teams during qualifications averaged 2.6 out of 3.0 qualification points per match. While Indiana might not be one of the biggest states for FRC, we're certainly right there in terms of competitiveness. To the rest of our ambassadors going to St. Louis, I'm certain you'll make us proud. To the rest of Indiana, we'll see you at IRI or next year!