Everyone's A Winner?

[ctt956]

The awards should be one entity, and the robots should be another entity. Both important, but they should not overlap.

[GeeTwo]

The key question is: "What is a winner?"

If you define being a winner in terms of walking away from a competition with a medal or a trophy, then I thoroughly agree that not every team is, nor should be, a winner. The C in FRC is Competition, and the competition contributes to both inspiration and recognition.

On the other hand, when I compare the members of an FRC team who dedicated dozens or even hundreds of hours learning, building, iterating, writing, practicing, and generally being inspired to their classmates who stayed at home playing video games, watching the tube, or smoking dope, then YES! Every one who really participates in FRC is a winner. For many, this is at least as inspirational a message as the medal or trophy. It is a point we emphasize at our awards ceremony -- everyone who went the distance is a winner, though a minority of the team members received a specific award.

[Type]

Originally Posted by Liam Fay

I disagree with this philosophy. Being second place at a regional of any kind is a phenomenal accomplishment, especially for a newer team. While it can be disappointing if that was your only hope of qualifying for CMP, it's still something you should be proud of. While it's important to always want to do better, calling 2nd place (!!) a loser is just unhealthy.

We are located in Michigan so it was districts. I may be wrong but districts are easier than regional event. I agree though with him, we didn't win. I think if we were a worse team he wouldn't say that but we had potential to win but we just weren't there at the time it mattered.

[Boltman]

With the growing concern over the effects of competition in youth sports programs this summer, many Canadian soccer associations eliminated the concept of keeping score.

[NoahB4536]

Originally Posted by Boltman

With the growing concern over the effects of competition in youth sports programs this summer, many Canadian soccer associations eliminated the concept of keeping score.

See that's what I don't want to have happen, and although I know first will never completely take away scoring there is still the possibility of a less competitive competition. I love competition and during the build season knowing that my actions will have an impact on the team at our regional leads me to be more focused and therefore learn more.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Boltman

With the growing concern over the effects of competition in youth sports programs this summer, many Canadian soccer associations eliminated the concept of keeping score.

Under 12 years of age...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Liam Fay

I disagree with this philosophy. Being second place at a regional of any kind is a phenomenal accomplishment, especially for a newer team. While it can be disappointing if that was your only hope of qualifying for CMP, it's still something you should be proud of. While it's important to always want to do better, calling 2nd place (!!) a loser is just unhealthy.

If you're not first you're last.


But seriously, an 8 yr old put it into perspective a couple weeks ago "Wow, you were second? There were like 40 teams there"

I hate the everyone is a winner stuff. But I mean, we all do build some pretty cool[1] robots. So, while there are definitely winners, I'm not convinced there are losers.


[1] New Englanders - would this have been an appropriate use of the word "wicked"?

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Type

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win. I agree with not everybody are winners. If everybody was a "winner", it would take the motivation out of competing so toughly

This is why everyone should watch Karate Kid II. while the opening is powerful, the ending even moreso.

2nd place is first loser

This middle is really there just to support getting you from the beginning to the end.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by IKE

This is why everyone should watch Karate Kid II. while the opening is powerful, the ending even moreso.

2nd place is first loser

This middle is really there just to support getting you from the beginning to the end.

+1
Best use of a Karate Kid movie ever.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by NoahB4536

This last weekend my team competed at the Minnesota 10K lakes regional. As per usual there were lots of speakers but it seemed to me like this year they talked a lot about how everyone was a winner by just showing up to the event. Now I am not bashing the speakers, I just wanted to address an issue that has come up in other sports, which is that if competitors at an event are told that everyone is a winner it can take away some of the joy of winning and interfere with the competition aspect of coopertition. Calling everyone a winner can also make it tough for people to deal with losing, although that is mostly with younger kids. I was in the pits for some of the regional so I did not get to watch every speaker and therefore cannot attest to the extent to which this was occurring but I do believe that it is important for the FRC to not give into the concept of everyone being a winner. There are three winning teams in a regional and although that does not necessarily mean that the other teams are "losers" it does mean that the other teams can be motivated to learn and improve in their pursuit of excellence.

It's fine for the speakers to say that at an FRC competition, because, while FIRST/FRC uses competition(s), FRC's primary goal is causing cultural change and then seeing individuals in those cultures reap the benefits from the change. Also, participants who are involved and then show up at an event absorb skills, etc. that are valuable for a lifetime.

Winning a cheesy trophy or banner isn't what it means to "win" in FIRST.

That's why it can be sensible to say that you "win" just by showing up.

Don't be too distracted by the shiny robots, and the games they play. Enjoy them, but keep your eyes on the real prize(s).

Blake
PS: Of course, it is possible to both attend an FRC event, and actively avoid receiving any benefits from the experience. I don't mind if a speaker ignores those exceptions to the general rule.

[Liu346]

Originally Posted by NoahB4536

This last weekend my team competed at the Minnesota 10K lakes regional. As per usual there were lots of speakers but it seemed to me like this year they talked a lot about how everyone was a winner by just showing up to the event. Now I am not bashing the speakers, I just wanted to address an issue that has come up in other sports, which is that if competitors at an event are told that everyone is a winner it can take away some of the joy of winning and interfere with the competition aspect of coopertition. Calling everyone a winner can also make it tough for people to deal with losing, although that is mostly with younger kids. I was in the pits for some of the regional so I did not get to watch every speaker and therefore cannot attest to the extent to which this was occurring but I do believe that it is important for the FRC to not give into the concept of everyone being a winner. There are three winning teams in a regional and although that does not necessarily mean that the other teams are "losers" it does mean that the other teams can be motivated to learn and improve in their pursuit of excellence.

Our team also believes that not everyone is a winner in competition standards. The only thing is the pre match speeches are to encourage the people who are not winners to not give up on their dreams and even if they lose the competition that they can still be a successful engineer. Our drive team often is deprived of sprinkles after competitions in which they do not come first place. Good Luck all teams.

[Nemo]

I think "every team is a winner" is a suboptimal choice of words, because one can read the wrong message from it. For example, it seems to imply that mediocrity is okay, even though that's not what anybody intends when they say those words. "Everyone can turn pro" is a better catch phrase that captures the idea that even if we don't win the tournament, we can still be achieving success as a result of participation in FRC.

[Tyler_Kaplan]

Originally Posted by NoahB4536

This last weekend my team competed at the Minnesota 10K lakes regional. As per usual there were lots of speakers but it seemed to me like this year they talked a lot about how everyone was a winner by just showing up to the event. Now I am not bashing the speakers, I just wanted to address an issue that has come up in other sports, which is that if competitors at an event are told that everyone is a winner it can take away some of the joy of winning and interfere with the competition aspect of coopertition. Calling everyone a winner can also make it tough for people to deal with losing, although that is mostly with younger kids. I was in the pits for some of the regional so I did not get to watch every speaker and therefore cannot attest to the extent to which this was occurring but I do believe that it is important for the FRC to not give into the concept of everyone being a winner. There are three winning teams in a regional and although that does not necessarily mean that the other teams are "losers" it does mean that the other teams can be motivated to learn and improve in their pursuit of excellence.

I am going to respectfully disagree with saying that there are three winners at a competition. FIRST is about far more than the outcome of the finals. For example, I would consider the winners of the Chairman's award huge winners, same with awards like engineering inspiration and rookie all star. Being a winner in FIRST is not black and white. It's about what you as an individual and a team get out of the experience. As a mentor, I look at it as what we can do to serve our community, and how to give students tools to succeed in their lives.

[NoahB4536]

Originally Posted by Tyler_Kaplan

I am going to respectfully disagree with saying that there are three winners at a competition. FIRST is about far more than the outcome of the finals. For example, I would consider the winners of the Chairman's award huge winners, same with awards like engineering inspiration and rookie all star. Being a winner in FIRST is not black and white. It's about what you as an individual and a team get out of the experience. As a mentor, I look at it as what we can do to serve our community, and how to give students tools to succeed in their lives.

Your right that more than three teams could be considered winners but I was mostly referring to the winners of the finals. I also agree that first is about giving people the tools they need for the future and to me one of the tools people need for this world we live in, with a global economy and global competition in the job market, is understanding winning and losing and being able to learn from mistakes. I definitely think that the winners of awards are winners and having fun and getting valuable skills are important however my worry is that we might see those awards become less valued because of the mentality that everyone is a winner. I see from the other posts that most people think that if you learn you are a winner and because the FRC is a program for learning it would make sense that gained knowledge could be (and probably should be) considered a victory, I just don't want first to turn into my elementary school baseball team where if you showed up you got a medal.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by NoahB4536

I just don't want first to turn into my elementary school baseball team where if you showed up you got a medal.

FIRST used to give out bronze medals to every team who competed. These were replaced with pins provided in the KoP several years ago, presumably as a cost cutting measure.