Rules on reusing part/all of a custom drive module from prev year

[TheModMaster8]

So I'm looking to find rules on pre CADed or upgraded CAD models from previous years, do you have to post these files if you only use one part from a previously cadded part? or is it that you have to post the cad even if you base all you data (measurements) from the file (i.e reCAD the old model to veto the rules of publishing) if you all could link me to these rules or provide any insight i would be grateful

[SndMndBdy]

Check rule R14 and the blue box beneath it. I think your exact workaround falls into a gray area of legality. Perhaps you should ask Q&A for clarification. But rather than going through all of that effort, perhaps you should just redesign it from scratch, and look for ways to improve it along the way. I can't imagine that would take much longer than posting on ChiefDelphi waiting for responses, posting on Q&A, waiting for a response, and then reciting a CAD

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by SndMndBdy

Check rule R14 and the blue box beneath it. I think your exact workaround falls into a gray area of legality. Perhaps you should ask Q&A for clarification. But rather than going through all of that effort, perhaps you should just redesign it from scratch, and look for ways to improve it along the way. I can't imagine that would take much longer than posting on ChiefDelphi waiting for responses, posting on Q&A, waiting for a response, and then reciting a CAD

Im not trying to due this, i Just want clarification and thanks for the rule link, that answered my question perfectly

[rich2202]

The general rule is: You can use it if it is posted (made public) PRIOR to kick off. One day, or 10 years prior.

If you have Assembly A made of Parts X, Y, and Z, how do you know which Parts you are going to use?

If you know that you will only reuse Y, then post Y. But, if there is a chance that you may need X and Z to go along with Y, then you have to post those too.

Note: A changed part is a new part, and must be re-posted.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Note: A changed part is a new part, and must be re-posted.

To clarify this - there is no need to post designs, unless you wish to re-use them another year. Even if you do anticipate re-use, there is no need to rush to post them during this build season; you can wait until June (or December) after you've cleaned things up a bit.

[GearsOfFury]

Originally Posted by rich2202

The general rule is: You can use it if it is posted (made public) PRIOR to kick off. One day, or 10 years prior.

If you have Assembly A made of Parts X, Y, and Z, how do you know which Parts you are going to use?

If you know that you will only reuse Y, then post Y. But, if there is a chance that you may need X and Z to go along with Y, then you have to post those too.

Note: A changed part is a new part, and must be re-posted.

And... Software counts, too. Algorithms, your special vision code, your autonomous libraries, etc. I've seen more than a couple teams think software is somehow different than other parts of the robot in this regard...

[JustinCAD]

Originally Posted by rich2202

The general rule is: You can use it if it is posted (made public) PRIOR to kick off. One day, or 10 years prior.

If you have Assembly A made of Parts X, Y, and Z, how do you know which Parts you are going to use?

If you know that you will only reuse Y, then post Y. But, if there is a chance that you may need X and Z to go along with Y, then you have to post those too.

Note: A changed part is a new part, and must be re-posted.

Just for clarification, if Parts X, Y, and Z are going to be reused, would Assembly A (containing these parts) also have to be posted?

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by JustinCAD

Just for clarification, if Parts X, Y, and Z are going to be reused, would Assembly A (containing these parts) also have to be posted?

R14 Software and mechanical/electrical designs created before Kickoff are only permitted if the source
files (complete information sufficient to produce the design) are available publicly prior to Kickoff

Are the part files sufficient enough to produce the design, or is the assembly also needed as well? IMO, depends on the system.

[GeeTwo]

Agreed: "Complete information sufficient to produce the design" is the standard for the perennial rule that this year is R14. If the pieces/parts are published together and suitably named that the assembly is obvious, or can at least be recreated by a "reasonably astute observer", I would consider this compliant. For example if in the same folder, parts for a gearbox were named "Front plate", "Rear Plate", "input shaft", "cluster shaft", "output shaft", and "spacer" and parts actually filled those functions, a detailed assembly diagram is probably not required. At the other end of the spectrum, if you posted plans for several hundred parts with non functional (or obfuscated) labels and part numbers 12, 53, 127, 403, and 611 form an undocumented assembly, this publication is clearly not compliant.

Similarly, I would consider code which is published without normal documentation describing the use of the code, or which is obfuscated, to not be compliant. If you were to strip the comments from the code you post but keep a copy with comments in-house, you would be violating at least the spirit of this rule.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by SndMndBdy

Check rule R14 and the blue box beneath it. I think your exact workaround falls into a gray area of legality. Perhaps you should ask Q&A for clarification. But rather than going through all of that effort, perhaps you should just redesign it from scratch, and look for ways to improve it along the way. I can't imagine that would take much longer than posting on ChiefDelphi waiting for responses, posting on Q&A, waiting for a response, and then reciting a CAD

The Q&A are closed, is there some official or judge, and what would happen if it was not posted (for the sake of curiosity) all it says is that it's prohibited.?
I also just want to reiterate that I am not trying to do this.

[rich2202]

What do you need clarification on?

If it has been posted, you can use it. If it has not been posted, you can't use it.

Note: It is enforced via the Honor System. So, do the honorable thing.

[MrRoboSteve]

The goal of the rule is:

a) help level the playing field between teams

b) encourage the dissemination of ideas, which ups the level of robot quality

[gpetilli]

Originally Posted by MrRoboSteve

The goal of the rule is:

a) help level the playing field between teams

b) encourage the dissemination of ideas, which ups the level of robot quality

c) Give this season's students the opportunity to innovate and experience the engineering process.

In all cases, even if the design is made public before kick-off, any custom fabricated parts need to be fabricated after kick-off. And yes, this applies to software too!!!

[Joe Johnson]

I know that this is the tradition in FIRST at this point but frankly, this isn't my favorite rule in FIRST. I am all for sharing designs. I am all for sharing code. And I think most teams are pretty helpful and typically would share these things absent the rule.

I think the main reason for this rule is to allow FIRST to maintain the fiction that FRC is a "6 week program." It is not. It hasn't been for longer than the 2 decades I have been involved.

Publishing code and CAD (and electronic schematics and whatever other designs FIRST can think of) does very little to level the playing field and does nothing to allow "6 Week" Teams to be able to implement features and capabilities that Year Round Teams are able to implement. Unless you are actually working to get better outside the build season, having the CAD & Code of Cheesy Poof's fall project is something akin to giving GPS plans to Civil War generals, theoretically interesting but not helpful in winning the war.

I think this is one of those rules that should just be dropped & forgotten.

Dr. Joe J.