Did FRC3548 become DNP at MSC due to red card!

[marccenter]

Dear CD,

To FIM teams at MSC, did FRC3548 become DNP (do not pick) due to red card on match 164?

Some scout teams at FiM eliminate you from their pick list if you receive a red card at MSC. I was wondering if you do this as a matter of standard practice?

Best regards,

[Mike Schreiber]

You were not on our DNP list. Admittedly, I missed the red card, but after watching it on YouTube I wouldn't say that was really intentional tipping. It was rough defense on a top heavy bot that went over so quick there's no way you're driver could have reacted in time.

[logank013]

I'm honestly surprised that was a red card. 3940 did something very similar in this match. I assume you guys got called for a G24. Here is what G24 says

Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping,
entanglements, or deliberately putting a BOULDER on an opponent’s ROBOT are not allowed.
Violation: FOUL and YELLOW CARD. If harm or incapacitation occurs as a result of the strategy,
RED CARD

Your team tipping 107 was obviously not a strategy and a lot of it would have been 107's fault for building a robot with such a high center of mass. I would honestly question your refs about that match but the competition is over and what is done is done. I definitely believe the IN crew got this call right and I'm not sure how much damage was caused to 107's robot, but I definitely would not say the red card call was 100% right at all. I also won't say it was 100% wrong either.

[Mike Schreiber]

Originally Posted by logank013

I'm honestly surprised that was a red card. 3940 did something very similar in this match. I assume you guys got called for a G24. Here is what G24 says

Your team tipping 107 was obviously not a strategy and a lot of it would have been 107's fault for building a robot with such a high center of mass. I would honestly question your refs about that match but the competition is over and what is done is done. I definitely believe the IN crew got this call right and I'm not sure how much damage was caused to 107's robot, but I definitely would not say the red card call was 100% right at all. I also won't say it was 100% wrong either.

It seems the way this is being called is that if you take the robot out of the match by actively hitting them with your robot it's a red card regardless of how top heavy they are or the situation they are in. I agree with this approach since I would be pretty upset if someone tipped us early in the match, got a yellow card (essentially no consequences) and then we lost the match because we couldn't score.

[marccenter]

Originally Posted by Mike Schreiber

It seems the way this is being called is that if you take the robot out of the match by actively hitting them with your robot it's a red card regardless of how top heavy they are or the situation they are in. I agree with this approach since I would be pretty upset if someone tipped us early in the match, got a yellow card (essentially no consequences) and then we lost the match because we couldn't score.

Mike,

Thanks for your comments. I have started another thread on the issue "Free Pass on defense for High CG robots"

[C.Lesco]

My heart goes out to you friend, that shouldnt have been a red card.

[gp2013]

I would have less of a problem if the calls WERE consistent. We received a red card when a defensive robot drove onto our bumper while we were moving forward. The sally door blocked the view and prevented our driver from reacting in time. They went over.

In a game designed to impair drivers visibility it seems a bit unrealistic to expect drivers to avoid accidents like this. Penalizing them with a red card that ultimately eliminates them from competition seems unduly harsh considering the money and effort that went into the process. Surely there are better ways to resolve the issue of tipping.

G24 specifically excludes strategies aimed at damaging another robot. Not accidents that result in a robot being disabled.

If FIRST wants to penalize robots for tipping then make that clear in the rules and call it consistently across the board. On several occasions I have watched robots tip others and push tipped bots across the floor and no penalties were assigned.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally Posted by Mike Schreiber

It seems the way this is being called is that if you take the robot out of the match by actively hitting them with your robot it's a red card regardless of how top heavy they are or the situation they are in. I agree with this approach since I would be pretty upset if someone tipped us early in the match, got a yellow card (essentially no consequences) and then we lost the match because we couldn't score.

<Bolded for emphasis>

I totally disagree with this approach. Yeah, too bad you are tipped and can't score, but you should have thought of that when you designed that top heavy robot to begin with. What about the team that gets a red card and is knocked out of eliminations because your robot can't stand a little defensive pushing? Are we now not supposed to even play defense on you?

[Briansmithtown]

This is why we don't build high CG robots people! Im still waiting for the first robot to fly though...