Is FRC giving high CG robots a free pass on defense?

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by Dale

In my opinion the rule should be expanded to include something that that makes it clear that bumper to bumper contact (resulting in a tip) will never result in a penalty. That would clear up a lot of situations. If a robot can be tipped just by being pushed in its bumper zone that is just a design / driving choice the team decided to make.

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint

I think this is the answer to this debate.

In order for a yellow or red card to be issued the offending robot must have keep pushing to the point that their bumper/robot is contacting something other than the bumper of the opposing robot (frame, drivetrain, etc). If it tips from bumper contact then that is a design problem.

I very much agree with this. It seems to me that the only time bumper-bumper contact should result in fouls or cards is if it is a case of egregious high-speed ramming or something of that ilk. A separate rule should exist for flipping (must involve non-bumper contact to come into effect) and for damage within the frame perimeter.

Judging intent is always unreasonable... and it hurts both sides if a call is made incorrectly. Honestly, what bothered me more about the referee's assigning a red card was less the result (automatic loss), but more that apparently the referees thought our drivers and team were the type to strategically flip an opposing robot. That is what hurts the most. Our team couldn't have intended to NOT flip 125 any more than we did (and do). We were just trying to play ordinary, quality defense by keeping them out of their scoring position. :-/ Unfortunately, we went from pushing them to flipping them in the blink of an eye!

[XaulZan11]

My suggestion would be to completely get rid of the tipping rule. Put it on the teams to build untippable or rightable robots if they want to be successful instead of putting it on refs to judge 'intent'. There are way too many examples of tipping being called inconsistently this year.

In order to prevent teams from just building wedges and going around tipping/lifting other robots, put a rule in the says any tipping as a result of non-bumper to bumper contact is a red card. It is a whole lot easier for a ref to judge if a robot as an appendage outside their bumpers than if they intended to tip another robot.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

My suggestion would be to completely get rid of the tipping rule. Put it on the teams to build untippable or rightable robots if they want to be successful instead of putting it on refs to judge 'intent'. There are way too many examples of tipping being called inconsistently this year.

In order to prevent teams from just building wedges and going around tipping/lifting other robots, put a rule in the says any tipping as a result of non-bumper to bumper contact is a red card. It is a whole lot easier for a ref to judge if a robot as an appendage outside their bumpers than if they intended to tip another robot.

+1

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

My suggestion would be to completely get rid of the tipping rule. Put it on the teams to build untippable or rightable robots if they want to be successful instead of putting it on refs to judge 'intent'. There are way too many examples of tipping being called inconsistently this year.

In order to prevent teams from just building wedges and going around tipping/lifting other robots, put a rule in the says any tipping as a result of non-bumper to bumper contact is a red card. It is a whole lot easier for a ref to judge if a robot as an appendage outside their bumpers than if they intended to tip another robot.

+2

Refs do a great job at making very difficult decisions... it is nearly impossible for them to judge intent with the current rule. This suggested change provides much improved context for that judgement call.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

My suggestion would be to completely get rid of the tipping rule. Put it on the teams to build untippable or rightable robots if they want to be successful instead of putting it on refs to judge 'intent'. There are way too many examples of tipping being called inconsistently this year.

In order to prevent teams from just building wedges and going around tipping/lifting other robots, put a rule in the says any tipping as a result of non-bumper to bumper contact is a red card. It is a whole lot easier for a ref to judge if a robot as an appendage outside their bumpers than if they intended to tip another robot.

There is a reason why that rule came into existence...

You can't make an untippable robot vs a ramp robot.

Kinda concerning people think this a good idea.

Originally Posted by MamaSpoldi

+2

Refs do a great job at making very difficult decisions... it is nearly impossible for them to judge intent with the current rule. This suggested change provides much improved context for that judgement call.

Instead of giving them hard calls, make tipping common place with robot damage!