Improving the District Experience

[Anupam Goli]

After being part of a district system for the first time, I'm in love with it. That being said, I've heard a few dissenting opinions, and the love for the system in Georgia is not universal.

One of the complaints that struck a chord with me was the lack of team diversity in smaller district models, like ours. We had no out-of-state teams participate in any of our events. With little to no outside influence, the gameplay in our district seemed to stagnate, and the lack of deep strategy was noticeable even at district championship. I personally don't know if North Carolina experienced the same phenomenon, but I'd be curious for members of NC District teams to share their experiences.

The micro-district model that Indiana pioneered paved the way for states to go to the district system by themselves, but for regions that don't have the competitive history and powerful top tier, it's tough to play the same game that everyone else is playing in week 7.

Would combining with another region to form a larger district help? How can we ensure our region can be competitive and diverse instead of isolated and less competitive?

[Hot_Copper_Frog]

I think one of the difficult parts of transitioning to a district system is having a large enough base of teams that qualifying for the district championship is a challenge.

Based off of the FIRST in Georgia website, there are 66+ FRC teams, which is getting to the critical mass point needed. Making a championship harder to qualify for may seem like it would be counterproductive, but it can really drive teams to innovate both in build and strategy.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

...snip...

Would combining with another region to form a larger district help? How can we ensure our region can be competitive and diverse instead of isolated and less competitive?

That is a really interesting concept for a "district" championship that would likely be more like the "super regional" model we were shown many years ago...
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As far as variety goes, you may want to Talk to some of the Indiana people. I talked with Chris Fultz this past weekend. He mentioned they had the same concern when they started. He also mentioned how great it is to finally get to know other teams.

One phenomenon that doesn't get a lot of discussion is the community feeling that the district system creates. You see teams and people more often. More team members volunteer in some capacity, and get to know others by having lunch in volunteer lounge, or working through issues or just being in alliances together more often.

This sense of community engagement and friendships isn't only at the adult level, the students really get to know one another, and rival sport schools become "friends with robots".

I talk a lot with some of the Indiana crew, and they have really become their own family. The last couple of years (especially this year), I have got to know some of the PNW people, and they too have developed their own FIRST culture and they are a fun and Crazy bunch (and have this years Woody Flowers Award Winner in their ranks).

In previous years, I talked with MAR and New England. Those areas are a little different (or at least were when I was discussing). I have heard that they have stronger State and/or local team allegiances, but it would be good to close the loop with them. Of note, both MAR and NE are heavily comprised of "old guard" FRC teams. Before probably 2005, and especially before 2000, FRC was not nearly as friendly a place as it is nowadays. Back in the day, teams used to cover their robot when they weren't working on it to ensure no one got a picture so they couldn't "copy" their successful ideas. I think this could be a factor in the culture or at least the observed culture. I should note that I may have been talking to them after their first year and did not do the follow up I have done with other regions. IE, they could be having super friendly everyone loves each other events now.

[notmattlythgoe]

If you are interested in official inter-district play please talk to your district heads ASAP. The topic will be broached at the district meeting this month.

This is a topic I've brought up on CD before, here are some reasonable restrictions on it.
1. 1st round of registration is for inner-district only. 2nd and 3rd rounds can be used for anywhere. A team may skip their first registration if they would like to compete at 2 outside district events.
2. Teams may only compete for the CA in their own district.

[Ben Martin]

Originally Posted by IKE

One phenomenon that doesn't get a lot of discussion is the community feeling that the district system creates. You see teams and people more often. More team members volunteer in some capacity, and get to know others by having lunch in volunteer lounge, or working through issues or just being in alliances together more often.

This sense of community engagement and friendships isn't only at the adult level, the students really get to know one another, and rival sport schools become "friends with robots".

...

In previous years, I talked with MAR and New England. Those areas are a little different (or at least were when I was discussing). I have heard that they have stronger State and/or local team allegiances, but it would be good to close the loop with them. Of note, both MAR and NE are heavily comprised of "old guard" FRC teams. Before probably 2005, and especially before 2000, FRC was not nearly as friendly a place as it is nowadays. Back in the day, teams used to cover their robot when they weren't working on it to ensure no one got a picture so they couldn't "copy" their successful ideas. I think this could be a factor in the culture or at least the observed culture. I should note that I may have been talking to them after their first year and did not do the follow up I have done with other regions. IE, they could be having super friendly everyone loves each other events now.

For MAR at least, the community feeling was a lot better this year than it has been in past years. I don't know what to attribute this to, but there is a heavy mix of 'new guard' teams achieving success in tandem with the 'old guard'. It could also be that this game doesn't force teams to be at odds with each other in qualification matches if the robots aren't complementary.

The camaraderie in districts is real, though. I know everybody a lot better than when I was in Indiana pre-district. Many of our students make great friends with other teams at the competitions.

[zachrobo1]

I'm not quite sure if the transition over to districts has negatively affected competitiveness as much as some other factors. Even pre-districts, Georgia teams have not been as competitive as their counterparts.

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

The camaraderie in districts is real, though. I know everybody a lot better than when I was in Indiana pre-district. Many of our students make great friends with other teams at the competitions.

I feel like this is a big part of the competitiveness problem for Georgia... There isn't much networking and collaboration between Georgia teams. I personally think that improvements in this will go a long way- and as said before, districts help in this regard.

In other words, I'm not quite sure that inter-district play is the best solution to the lack of depth.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

For MAR at least, the community feeling was a lot better this year than it has been in past years. I don't know what to attribute this to, but there is a heavy mix of 'new guard' teams achieving success in tandem with the 'old guard'. It could also be that this game doesn't force teams to be at odds with each other in qualification matches if the robots aren't complementary.

The camaraderie in districts is real, though. I know everybody a lot better than when I was in Indiana pre-district. Many of our students make great friends with other teams at the competitions.

I am very glad to hear that. For the record, I met a lot of very nice people from both of those regions, and I hope it doesn't come across as me "calling out" MAR and New England, but the discussions I had those years were distinctly different than those I had with Indiana and PNW folks.

[marshall]

So I talked with some folks about inter-district play and I can tell you all that what needs to happen is we need to get a proposal together and then we need to beat Frank over the head with it (not literally). Basically, it has to come from him. The local district executives all seem to have their hands tied to what Frank (read: FRC HQ) decides on this topic. What this means is that all of us here who want it need to work together to put in front of him.... and I think we can given that we've gotten him to respond about less important topics like free corndogs in the past.

[waialua359]

The best thing I can think of for improving the District experience, would be to allow outside teams to sign up for a district (if available after all teams in that district sign up) or inter-district play.
We would love the opportunity to participate in a district for a whole season.
NE, MAR, and/or FiM come to mind..

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

If you are interested in official inter-district play please talk to your district heads ASAP. The topic will be broached at the district meeting this month.

This is a topic I've brought up on CD before, here are some reasonable restrictions on it.
1. 1st round of registration is for inner-district only. 2nd and 3rd rounds can be used for anywhere. A team may skip their first registration if they would like to compete at 2 outside district events.
2. Teams may only compete for the CA in their own district.

Yes, can we please get points for going out of district and playing? Incentivizing teams to go out of their home regions would do wonders for competitive growth and allow many teams to compete out of state without having to do a 3rd district event play.

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by waialua359

The best thing I can think of for improving the District experience, would be to allow outside teams to sign up for a district (if available after all teams in that district sign up) or inter-district play.
We would love the opportunity to participate in a district for a whole season.
NE, MAR, and/or FiM come to mind..

Buying into a district for a whole season would be a great concept. Every district would have to regulate this number, but it seems like a excellent idea for some international teams as well.

Originally Posted by IKE

In previous years, I talked with MAR and New England. Those areas are a little different (or at least were when I was discussing). I have heard that they have stronger State and/or local team allegiances, but it would be good to close the loop with them. Of note, both MAR and NE are heavily comprised of "old guard" FRC teams. Before probably 2005, and especially before 2000, FRC was not nearly as friendly a place as it is nowadays. Back in the day, teams used to cover their robot when they weren't working on it to ensure no one got a picture so they couldn't "copy" their successful ideas. I think this could be a factor in the culture or at least the observed culture. I should note that I may have been talking to them after their first year and did not do the follow up I have done with other regions. IE, they could be having super friendly everyone loves each other events now.

Largely this feeling is going away, while many people still feel that some of the circles are hard to break into (specifically alliance selection) in general everyone is open about their robots design once build season is over.

[Jscout11]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

For MAR at least, the community feeling was a lot better this year than it has been in past years. I don't know what to attribute this to, but there is a heavy mix of 'new guard' teams achieving success in tandem with the 'old guard'. It could also be that this game doesn't force teams to be at odds with each other in qualification matches if the robots aren't complementary.

The camaraderie in districts is real, though. I know everybody a lot better than when I was in Indiana pre-district. Many of our students make great friends with other teams at the competitions.

Agreed. Not just this year, I feel like the floor of competitiveness, at least by MAR Champs, has definitely risen each year, and there is a larger range of teams at the top. In 2012 when MAR started we had 341 and 25 clearly at the top, now while these teams are still at the top, there are a LOT of other teams right there with them.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

We had no out-of-state teams participate in any of our events.

That's probably because of your geography. You're the southernmost District, and your nearest neighbors are NC which is also a new District this year. They didn't fill up Asheville, so there wasn't any incentive for NC teams to travel further to the PCH events.

If other bordering states become Districts, you'll likely get some cross-border pollination. But it won't really start until teams can go cross-border and earn points.

I spoke to the main mentor of one of our stalwart teams in FiM back when we started districts. The team traveled up to Traverse City. The mentor told me that the team members really didn't care where they went (they'd gone out of state in prior years) - they just wanted to have the opportunity to travel and stay in a hotel. If they begin to allow travel events to count, we'll probably see more and more of it.

[vikesrock777]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

That's probably because of your geography. You're the southernmost District, and your nearest neighbors are NC which is also a new District this year. They didn't fill up Asheville, so there wasn't any incentive for NC teams to travel further to the PCH events.

If other bordering states become Districts, you'll likely get some cross-border pollination. But it won't really start until teams can go cross-border and earn points.

I spoke to the main mentor of one of our stalwart teams in FiM back when we started districts. The team traveled up to Traverse City. The mentor told me that the team members really didn't care where they went (they'd gone out of state in prior years) - they just wanted to have the opportunity to travel and stay in a hotel. If they begin to allow travel events to count, we'll probably see more and more of it.

Alongside us being the southernmost district, I'd have to imagine another component was travel consideration. The two events with openings for the longest amount of time (Albany and Dalton) were 2 and 3 hours from the Atlanta airport. For any team that would consider flying in, that is adding even more to the travel burden.

[Link07]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

That's probably because of your geography. You're the southernmost District, and your nearest neighbors are NC which is also a new District this year. They didn't fill up Asheville, so there wasn't any incentive for NC teams to travel further to the PCH events.

If other bordering states become Districts, you'll likely get some cross-border pollination. But it won't really start until teams can go cross-border and earn points.

I spoke to the main mentor of one of our stalwart teams in FiM back when we started districts. The team traveled up to Traverse City. The mentor told me that the team members really didn't care where they went (they'd gone out of state in prior years) - they just wanted to have the opportunity to travel and stay in a hotel. If they begin to allow travel events to count, we'll probably see more and more of it.

On the contrast, MAR has had only one out of state team attend, which was this year. A number of MAR teams have played in New England though