Dear FIRST HQ, Let's talk about the playoff pits.

[maxnz]

I can also see another problem where something breaks and you need to fix it between matches. If the pit crew can watch, they can be prepared to work immediately when the robot gets back to the pit, because they (probably) know what to fix. Otherwise you're wasting time when the driver/drive team has to explain what went wrong to the pit crew so they know what to fix.

[1625Brennan]

On Carson we were part of the 6th alliance, we were told that the only people allowed on the field were the drivers and media, one of our students managed to acquire a media pass from a knocked out team, so he was able to see the matches, although the others walked to the robot exit/que line. The pit crew issue was not the only problem we encountered as part of the 6th alliance. Our opponents had a distinct advantage as they could see the robots we were bringing well before the match would begin where as we must wait to see them loaded on the field. This allowed them to select the bots they played with be it a defensive or offensive, depending on the ones we had brought. When we asked the refs if they could do anything they said no, as we had expected.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

It's worth noting as well that there will be 200 less teams per event so the issue might have resolved itself for next year. That being said, their should be better designated areas in place to ensure pit crews can watch their team's matches and maybe even have pits placed equally.

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

The situation in the playoff pits when pit crews are not allowed to watch their own team's matches is unacceptable.

I assume you are referring to the Carson field playoffs. I think that the other fields had different experiences. Could we hear from them?

Originally Posted by Tom Line

We ran into this problem last year when we walked out from behind the black curtains to watch our teams play in the playoffs and were told by the volunteers that we were not allowed to watch. What proceeded was a game of cat and mouse where we looked out between the curtains - so they hung a "do not part curtains" sign up.

The curtains are provided as a backdrop to the video production. To have people peeking through the curtains is not desirable, though I doubt that it would be noticed.

Originally Posted by Tom Line

One of my students shared her views very vocally with the volunteer, and we asked for someone above her. We waited and after arguing with the next individual the volunteers finally taped off a spot on the floor and told us we could stand inside it to watch the matches.

So apparently the lessons-learned from last year's mess was to increase volunteer presence to yell at teams who wanted to watch the final matches of their entire season.

So, the situation was resolved? Did your student "yell"?

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I related this information in my FIRST mentor feedback form. Alas, it appears they learned nothing.

I don't agree that they learned "nothing". The CMP went more smoothly this year. The Einstein fields being the same as the closing ceremonies was an important change. Pit team members were able to watch their matches there.

Originally Posted by Tom Line

This is a total failure on their part, and I don't say that often.

"Total Failure", such hyperbole. Talk to SpaceX

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I simply cannot reiterate how disgusted I am that FIRST would put so many teams in this situation.

Replace Dope with Disgusting?
#TSIMFD

[wilsonmw04]

The experience on the Carver field was completely different. At the beginning of the elimination matches, we were all crowding at the edge of the pit trying to watch the matches. One of the volunteers noticed it and said, "You know you can watch your matches from the media area right?" With a huge smile on our faces it walked the 10 ft to watch our matches ring side. Everyone there made room for us right at the front. They also didn't mind my kids sitting while watching because it allowed for better viewing for those behind them.

Einstein was a bit different. As me moved over, the volunteers told us straight away that were we could watch the matches. It was right next to the "VIP" area. Since our viewing area was behind the driver station, we kept creeping over into the VIP area and kept getting shooed back. When teams started to get eliminated, I guess they became VIP's because they started filling that area.

[Chris is me]

To be perfectly frank, this is one of several examples of the Championship event doing things at the direct expense of the team experience. I'll probably make a post in a few days (or minutes) summing them up, but in a lot of ways I'm quite disappointed with the way Championships was run and the way teams were treated. The Championship is full of excellent volunteers with extremely difficult jobs, but too often teams are treated with indifference or even hostility, and their concerns fall on completely deaf ears.

The experience on the Carver field was completely different. At the beginning of the elimination matches, we were all crowding at the edge of the pit trying to watch the matches. One of the volunteers noticed it and said, "You know you can watch your matches from the media area right?" With a huge smile on our faces it walked the 10 ft to watch our matches ring side. Everyone there made room for us right at the front. They also didn't mind my kids sitting while watching because it allowed for better viewing for those behind them.

This was not quite my experience on Carver. It took a (slightly) heated discussion for them to permit me to watch my alliance's final match of the season, because "the backup team isn't even on the field"... If it wasn't for a late change of heart I would have had to ask our opponents if I could stand in their pit area to view the match. I think it was just a case of one confused volunteer because another clarified I could be there. This is in stark contrast to 2013 and 2012 when anyone who was permitted on the floor could watch a match as long as they were far enough away from the field to not block the view for the audience. I understand if it can't be like 2012 / 2013 again but it shouldn't be this bad.

[Pauline Tasci]

When your team is in Einstein finals, they should let your entire team down there.
A team is more than 4 drive team members and 3 pit crew members.
FIRST should really bring the whole team down to experience the win or loss as a team, because that's what that match represents. A whole team's efforts over 4 months.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by paunatime

When your team is in Einstein finals, they should let your entire team down there.
A team is more than 4 drive team members and 3 pit crew members.
FIRST should really bring the whole team down to experience the win or loss as a team, because that's what that match represents. A whole team's efforts over 4 months.

There just isn't enough room.

[Pauline Tasci]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

There just isn't enough room.

The teams who lost Einstein in Quarters and Semis are now there just to watch the finals matches, they can stand to the side or go back to the Einstein stands. It's way more important for the team that is in Finals to be there.
Personally I gave my badge after losing to quarters to another alliance who made it to Semi's. They deserved to be on the field way more than myself.

Or even have the teams in the VIP section that was 100% empty during the finals.

There is room its a matter of making the necessary adjustments.

[jnicho15]

Tesla also had no problem with Pit Crew watching matches. We stood/sat in the defense staging? area near the wall. As long as we were on or behind the hazard tape, they were happy.

[Gary Dillard]

As a volunteer working crowd control on Archimedes during the division playoffs, here's how I understood our directions through most of the playoffs (sorry the details are a little fuzzy). First let me note that when things first started there seemed to be multiple "directions" regarding teams, media, others, etc. that were often conflicting, so our head queuer got in a chat session with the other lead queuers (I think he said on Facebook that they had set up) to see what other divisions were doing and make sure that all fields were being consistent. I don't recall the initial guidelines he provided, but shortly after that the guidelines changed again based on input from someone higher up the chain (either someone from FIRST or maybe Jess, I don't recall that either) and they were the same for the remainder of the division playoffs on our field. I was next to the field, so I don't know how this was disseminated to the queuers working behind the curtain.
If you had a team media badge, you were allowed in the media area (the front of the field by the stands, taped off and offset from center) while your team was on the field, plus anyone with a FIRST media badge, so that was only about 8 people to check on. That gave us room to get the robots on and off the field safely and quickly. From about 3 feet behind the media line back to the stands and extending the length of the field was the taped off area where anyone who's team was on the field was allowed to watch, plus invited guests and judges who were generally allowed to stand toward the front of the viewing area behind the media. I would make a couple of passes checking badges before each match started, and that was about it.

[BJT]

On Curie we had no problem. Our pit emptied. We were all out there.

[BrendanB]

We had a bad experience on Carver as well even being told that unless our robot was on the field we had to be back in the pit. A few volunteers were reasonable and let us watch our alliance's match from the media section while others were extremely strict and just smiled as they pointed towards the curtains.


There would be plenty of space in front of the fields if the #1 - #3 alliance pits weren't there but the giant event stage took up almost a third of the space behind the fields.

[Foster]

Why, after so many years, is this stuff still a problem? Competition robotics is ALL about learning from things that happen in events. Are these things past the pale of issues, or are event producers just not learning?

One would think after two decades of doing events that these issues would have been closed out as solved. #TSIMFD This ...... Is ... Dumb

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by jijiglobe

This is interesting to hear because we had a completely different experience on Curie. Our pit crew was allowed onto the field to watch matches, so long as they did not help the drive team with any sort of field setup.

Yep, we had the same experience on Curie. Our alliances entire pit crew, including the safety captains and 4th drive team were allowed to go and stand in the media box to watch.