Discussion on All-Girl events

[The Swaggy P]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

The 2016 IndyRAGE (Robotics All Girls Event) is set!

Saturday October 1
Perry Meridian High School
Indianapolis, IN

24 Teams

<$100 entry fee due to excellent sponsor support!

Stronghold Game - All female drive team required (including coach).

Focus on female volunteers in all roles.

Two Lunch time panel discussions -
* Female Focused - Career, Opportunity, Education, Challenges in STEM
* Male Focused - Unintentional Bias and Actions and The Impact on Diversity

More details, registration and volunteer sign up in August / September.

Hosted by FRC 234 - Cyber Blue.

So, does this mean, as a boy, I should cancel all my educational plans and catch the nearest plane to the salt mines in northern Russia?
For it appears that the planned lunch discussions are biased against males.

Replacing one bias with another does not solve the gender equality issue.

[pilleya]

Originally Posted by The Swaggy P

So, does this mean, as a boy, I should cancel all my educational plans and catch the nearest plane to the salt mines in northern Russia?
For it appears that the planned lunch discussions are biased against males.

Replacing one bias with another does not solve the gender equality issue.

Team 234 is putting a lot of work into organising and running this event let's not take away from that.

The planned lunch discussions are not biased against males. They are simply discussing bias and its effects.

The idea of gender bias is something that you might not want to be discussed, but it is highly important and a good use of time IMO.

Unintentional and Intentional Bias is prevalent in our world and you would have to be quite naïve not to see this.

If you have any specific questions about the discussions I recommend that you Mr Anonymous should PM Chris Fultz

[The Swaggy P]

Originally Posted by pilleya

Team 234 is putting a lot of work into organising and running this event let's not take away from that.

The planned lunch discussions are not biased against males. They are simply discussing bias and its effects.

The idea of gender bias is something that you might not want to be discussed, but it is highly important and a good use of time IMO.

Gender related bias is prevalent and you would have to be quite naïve not to see this.

If you have any specific questions about the discussions I recommend that you Mr Anonymous should PM Chris Fultz

I do not object to gender bias discussions. What bothers me is the format of these discussions, which makes it seem as though all boys are already biased, and only girls are fit to enroll in college and STEM courses.

And I believe you have spelled my name wrong. It is not "Mr Anonymous, it is The Swaggy P.

[Dibit1010]

I think there is a huge misconception about what (a large portion) of women want out of bias discussions. Most of us want equality, for pay, for perception, and just in general. Not everyone is biased but based on my personal experience as a girl who is involved in the engineering field there are still people in high places that refuse to accept the idea that my work as a female is on par with that of my male counterparts. Even with all the scholarships and programs to get women into STEM schools females walked away with only 19.2% of engineering diplomas, and 18.2% in computer science (2014). This number needs to be higher- women are still being pushed away from engineering fields because of biasing. I am supportive of these types of discussions about gender perception because FIRST seems to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. While some teams have a female inclusive team others seem to only allow girls on their cheering squad team (which is fine if you want to cheer- it's great!), but don't try to tell me that 100% of the 35 girls on your team want to only cheer in the stands. Inclusiveness comes not from the leadership, but from the students themselves. The males on the team have to accept the female in the build room, and treat her the same. It sounds like you are- good job! Sorry for the rant but this is something that needs to be talked about. (Great idea for IndyRAGE- would go but I'm in NC)


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[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by The Swaggy P

What bothers me is the format of these discussions, which makes it seem as though all boys are already biased, and only girls are fit to enroll in college and STEM courses.

And I believe you have spelled my name wrong. It is not "Mr Anonymous, it is The Swaggy P.

What bothers me is a troll who is looking to start a fight behind the veil of anonymity.

Back on topic...

I would like to attend and learn some things from the male-focused session, for sure. Thanks for hosting these sessions.

Sincerely,
Andy B.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by The Swaggy P

So, does this mean, as a boy, I should cancel all my educational plans and catch the nearest plane to the salt mines in northern Russia?
For it appears that the planned lunch discussions are biased against males.

Replacing one bias with another does not solve the gender equality issue.

Originally Posted by The Swaggy P

I do not object to gender bias discussions. What bothers me is the format of these discussions, which makes it seem as though all boys are already biased, and only girls are fit to enroll in college and STEM courses.

And I believe you have spelled my name wrong. It is not "Mr Anonymous, it is The Swaggy P.

The key word in that panel name is unintentional. I'm not going to claim #woke status, but I know I've said stuff in the past with zero malice that now would have me eating my words.

So no, you shouldn't catch that plane to the salt mines as a boy. But as someone apparently not keen on giving your thought process the three-foot-drop test, maybe it's worth checking Priceline.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been on an unintentionally all-girls team--4901's pre-rookie appearance at SCRIW was with all of three girls, literally just enough for a drive team. When a team doesn't look like the community it's based in (on any dimension, not just gender), it's important to ask why that is so*. Good on Indiana for having enough demand to make this a thing.

*I'm not saying you should force a team to look like the community it's based in--but you should ask why it isn't and make a fair attempt.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by The Swaggy P

I should cancel all my educational plans and catch the nearest plane to the salt mines in northern Russia?

Sure.

I apologize for the giant image, but I think it's worth posting.



Unintentional and societal bias are a large reason as to why 92.2% of US mechanical engineers are male, and that the ratios are similarly out of whack in most other engineering fields.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by The Swaggy P

I do not object to gender bias discussions. What bothers me is the format of these discussions, which makes it seem as though all boys are already biased, and only girls are fit to enroll in college and STEM courses.

And I believe you have spelled my name wrong. It is not "Mr Anonymous, it is The Swaggy P.

Make a new thread to complain and moan if you wish, this thread is about the awesome Indy Rage event.
While your at it, add a team name, and your own name to the account if are claiming that you aren't being anonymous.

[smitikshah]

"The Swaggy P" - I understand you may think that the event is favoring girls and pushing them in STEM, but as some people have brought up, engineering fields are predominantly male. I thought for a while that this was because females just didn't like engineering, but from my personal experiences, I can assure that from my point of view that is certainly not the case.

Quick Storytime:
For this summer, I was accepted into a materials science engineering/bioengineering lab to pursue an idea I had for the future of materials engineering. I was so excited to go into the lab and start working! Within the past week, however, I was a bit turned down by the atmosphere. I am the only female in the lab (of about 15 people), and I feel like there is a lot of unintentional bias going on. For example. just today, all the "bros" (as they like to call themselves) made plans to go out for a lab team lunch, and I was the only one that wasn't invited. I'm sure you will say that this might be due to a variety of other factors - but based on the way they act, I'm sure it's out of unintentional bias. There are a plethora of other examples that would take too long to write out, so if you need more PM me. Again, I'm sure what they are doing is unintentional, and I know that in a professional environment, I shouldn't need to be best friends with everyone I work with, but that environment does make me feel upset and lonely at times. However, since I really believe in my idea, I plan on finishing my work in this lab and trying to fulfill my dream of having the idea published - but I probably won't work at said lab again.

Rambling story aside: Some males might not realize they do it because of the predominant influence of males in the field, but this unintentional bias can lead some of us girls to not feel welcome.

I am thrilled that this event is taking place and hopefully the panel discussions can help better the STEM/Engineering Environment for all of us!

[Ed Law]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Make a new thread to complain and moan if you wish, this thread is about the awesome Indy Rage event.
While your at it, add a team name, and your own name to the account if are claiming that you aren't being anonymous.

I am not defending Swaggy P here. I don't even know him. He may not be intentionally hiding his identity. If you check his previous post, you would know he is/was from 4692. It matches with the city he said he is in. He said his rookie year was 2013 which was when that team started. He may have just graduated and may have removed his team number because he is no longer on that team. That is his choice. Also many people do not put their real name in their CD profile. It is allowed although I think everybody should put their real name but that was just me.

You and I may not like what he said or how he said it or his stance on certain issue. Let's be more gentle in our discussion and stop the red dots.

I have had parents on the team asked me why we offered free STEM camps to girls only and why we ran the Bloomfield Girls Robotics Competition. My first guess as to why they asked which I was always right was that they did not have a girl in their family. Otherwise they would understand why.

[Strider-dan]

This graph says nothing except that females seem to gravitate to certain professions and males to other professions. This graph also reflects past preferences and not what students are doing today. It would take a couple generations to change the demographics, say in mechanical engineering, even if only women were allowed to study mechanical engineering starting today. And most women do not want to be mechanical engineers, although those who do apply to engineering programs are pretty much guaranteed a spot. In my experience as a parent of one girl and two boys, I did not see any institutional barriers but lots of encouragement for my daughter to do whatever she chose to do but I saw and continue to see a lot of overt messages against my sons. In high school my sons and other boys were not included in "technology career visits" to local industries while girls, even those who had no interest, were encouraged to join the visit and find out. Now one son is in college and the information boards on campus are plastered with "girls can do anything" type lectures and "all young men are sexual offenders and need to get sensitivity training" type lectures. And of course there are more girls than boys on campus.

It is amazing to me that no one seems to see the problem that "The Swaggy P" is bringing to your attention so I will pose it in a different way. What would you think if the announcement were as follows:

The 2016 SundayRAGE (Robotics All BOYS Event) is set!

Sunday October 2
Jerry Meridian High School
Minneapolis, MN

24 Teams

<$100 entry fee due to excellent sponsor support!

Stronghold Game - All MALE drive team required (including coach).

Focus on MALE volunteers in all roles.

Two Lunch time panel discussions -
* Male Focused - Career, Opportunity, Education, Challenges in STEM
* Female Focused - Intentional Bias and Actions and The Impact on Diversity

More details, registration and volunteer sign up in August / September.

You think this message might be hurtful to Girls on the teams that want to participate? If so, can't you see that the opposite message is just as hurtful to Boys? Why does the encouragement of Girls have to be at the expense of Boys and vice versa? Instituting new biases that favor girls and harm boys from kindergarten all the way through college and into careers does not make any sense for any society.

As an incubator of future leaders in our society, FIRST has great responsibility to not further these types of biases and instead to encourage all of our children to achieve their full potential in any career they choose to pursue. Team coaches and mentors (including parent mentors like me) have the personal responsibility to uplift all our young people, boys and girls alike.

Team 234 is to be highly commended for putting in the time and energy to organize and host an after season competition. But making it a Girls Only event is not similarly worthy.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Ed Law

I am not defending Swaggy P here. I don't even know him. He may not be intentionally hiding his identity. If you check his previous post, you would know he is/was from 4692. It matches with the city he said he is in. He said his rookie year was 2013 which was when that team started. He may have just graduated and may have removed his team number because he is no longer on that team. That is his choice. Also many people do not put their real name in their CD profile. It is allowed although I think everybody should put their real name but that was just me.

You're right, there are plenty of legitimate reason not to have name / team on one's profile. As he was saying that he wasn't being anonymous I was just challenging him to be even more "non anonymous".

Looks like someone disliked what he said even more than you or I though, his posts are gone now. Anyway, this thread may not be a good place for any of this discussion, maybe he'll make his own like I suggested.

[Strider-dan]

A little while back, I had posted some thoughts in response to the graph put up by Karthik. I had included examples of experiences that my daughter and sons have had growing up to show that there is intentional bias in favor of girls in many activities today and that it is not helpful to the healthy development of our society. It seems that any ideas not exactly in line with the biases of this group are not welcome because my post has been deleted as has the post by The Swaggy P that was the source of much of the discussion. An echo chamber is not healthy for this group either but it seems the forum moderators prefer to keep you in one. Good luck with this game plan.

Again, Team 234 is to be highly commended for putting in the time and energy to organize and host an after season competition. But making it a Girls Only event is not similarly worthy.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by Strider-dan

A little while back, I had posted some thoughts in response to the graph put up by Karthik. I had included examples of experiences that my daughter and sons have had growing up to show that there is intentional bias in favor of girls in many activities today and that it is not helpful to the healthy development of our society. It seems that any ideas not exactly in line with the biases of this group are not welcome because my post has been deleted as has the post by The Swaggy P that was the source of much of the discussion. An echo chamber is not healthy for this group either but it seems the forum moderators prefer to keep you in one. Good luck with this game plan.

Again, Team 234 is to be highly commended for putting in the time and energy to organize and host an after season competition. But making it a Girls Only event is not similarly worthy.

If you want people to have a serious conversation with you, use your real account.

[The Swaggy P]

Originally Posted by Ed Law

I am not defending Swaggy P here. I don't even know him. He may not be intentionally hiding his identity. If you check his previous post, you would know he is/was from 4692. It matches with the city he said he is in. He said his rookie year was 2013 which was when that team started. He may have just graduated and may have removed his team number because he is no longer on that team. That is his choice. Also many people do not put their real name in their CD profile. It is allowed although I think everybody should put their real name but that was just me.

You and I may not like what he said or how he said it or his stance on certain issue. Let's be more gentle in our discussion and stop the red dots.

I have had parents on the team asked me why we offered free STEM camps to girls only and why we ran the Bloomfield Girls Robotics Competition. My first guess as to why they asked which I was always right was that they did not have a girl in their family. Otherwise they would understand why.

I do have a sister, and she wants to earn her way through life on her own merits and hard work, and does not expect, nor want, special treatment from society.