Value & Credibility of 4th robots on an Alliance

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

what is the value and/or credibility of the fourth person on the drive team because all they do is stand there and talk cant even touch the controls or the game pieces

You get a pretty neat button and get to yell at people. It's really great.

[smitikshah]

Originally Posted by frcguy

You get a pretty neat button and get to yell at people. It's really great.

Yup. I never knew that side of me existed. I have never yelled at someone as loud as I have at the NYC regional this year.

Lost my voice for over a week, but it was worth it because I got to yell at people with the only repercussion being people saying "hey thanks for that call."

All in all: Coach= 8/8 would recommend m8.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by frcguy

You get a pretty neat button and get to yell at people. It's really great.

Some of the best coaches don't actually yell.

(Source: behind the glass experience)

[ollien]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Some of the best coaches don't actually yell.

(Source: behind the glass experience)

I've found that while you don't mean to yell, if often happens out of urgency.

[wilsonmw04]

hijacked thread? I think so...
I blame Wil.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

hijacked thread? I think so...
I blame Wil.

Tl;dr

YES! All the robots on an alliance have a worth. All the teams deserve trophies. All of them get medals.

((When in doubt, blaming Wil usually works too))

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

hijacked thread? I think so...
I blame Wil.

i was pretty offended you implied this board was limited to people who were either professionals or students so i took it out on the thread

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

i was pretty offended you implied this board was limited to people who were either professionals or students so i took it out on the thread

I put you in the "professional" category. Too soon?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

I put you in the "professional" category. Too soon?

Nah, he's a professional all right.

At what, I'm not sure yet. Maybe he's a professional amateur?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

i was pretty offended you implied this board was limited to people who were either professionals or students so i took it out on the thread

It is possible to be both professional AND a student. Trust me on this.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by JABot67

Even though we didn't make it very far, it was thrilling in 2015 Tesla to be the 4th bot on the #1 alliance along with 2481, 624, and 3847. Our strategy was to have 2481 cheesecake 3847 with some really fast can grabbers in case our alliance made Einstein, and we (2930) were to fill in the can grabbing role until 3847 was ready - probably division finals or Einstein.



This is the sort of strategic picking that the four-teams-per-alliance system allows, and I think it is awesome. How many alliances took advantage of this during this past year? Off the top of my head, 2990 didn't play a match in their division playoffs and then hit the ground running with some great defense and ball control to help 148, 1678, and 364 get within 5 points of the finals. It's all about strategy, and four team alliances allow for some pretty awesome strategies. I for one was very excited when I heard in 2014 that four team alliances were going to be a thing, and it hasn't seemed to me for even one moment that the 4th bot on the winning alliance was less of a winner. Alliances win competitions.

+1

[Brian Maher]

This year, 1257 was the third pick of the second alliance on Archimedes. I never got the impression at any point that we were thought of as a backup. All four teams were involved in developing the strategy of our alliance.

Our captain/first pick used their second pick to choose a robot that played defense throughout qualifications, as they were confident they could play defense. They then selected us in the third round due to the versatility of our robot: we could score up to 7 low goals, feed balls for shooters, or play defense. Our captain had heard that we played effective defense at MAR CMP, but had not had a chance to see it on Archimedes.

It was decided that we would play in our first quarterfinal match and our second pick would play in the next, to see which was more effective. However, our robot played the role well in that match, and the decision was made by our alliance for us to continue to play defense. In fact, our second pick never made it to the field on Saturday (I hope there are no hard feelings there).

This shows one strategic use of the fourth robot: making a risky pick while also having a safe contingency plan. They hadn't seen us play defense on Archimedes, so they hedged their bet in us by picking a team they had seen do it. We almost made it to division finals, losing SF2-3 by a mere five points.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by asid61

What a 1678 thing to say! I think that denial of robots and being able to "threaten" your opponents with them is an important aspect of 4th bots. For 2013 in particular, picking a goalie bot as your 4th to stop full-court shooters would have been an easy way to sub in and out for different alliances, and discourages your opponent from using their full court shooters.

This year too was an important year for "goalie" bots as the 3rd pick with defensive blockers. At least for our alliance in Curie it was great having a low-goal and breaching bot (5803), 2 pretty good high-goal shooters (3310, 2168), and us (5940) as a "utility player", as we could score low goals and breach but also had a big net we could bolt on for defense scenarios. That's what I think the 4th bot is great for, as it allows flexibility in an alliance's strategy being able to both put up a lot of points and slow down the opposing alliance's scoring depending on the circumstances and the level of the opponents.

[pandamonium]

What do people think about a rule stating that 4th robots have to touch the carpet in eliminations?

[Brian Maher]

Originally Posted by pandamonium

What do people think about a rule stating that 4th robots have to touch the carpet in eliminations?

A big part of the value of fourth robots is being able to tailor your alliance on the field to respond to the opponent. Anything forcing an alliance to play a particular lineup at any point severely reduces this advantage.

I say this coming from an alliance on Archimedes that never played our second pick. There should be no rules to prevent an alliance from playing the lineup they believe gives them the best chance of winning.