New Mill - Help with tooling

[matthewdenny]

Our school recently had a Gorton Mastermil 1-22 manual milling machine donated to us by the Timken company (www.timken.com). I've attached a picture of it below.

Be relatively novice to milling we have begun watching videos on youtube about milling, etc. We are getting to the time of the year though where school supply orders need to be placed, and were hoping to hear some suggestions on tooling. What do we have to have, what should we have, what is a luxury. I know this depends on what we plan to do with it to a certain amount, but we aren't super sure even what can be done with it yet.

Also if there is anyone out there familiar with this type of mill we'd like to know what ever specifics about it's tool sizes you know (we don't have it on site yet).

Also how do we go about cleaning the grunge off of it?

[sanddrag]

Congrats on the "new" machine. It looks like this is the manual (PDF) for it. Also, that's a neat floor in that shop, especially if you drop something. You don't see too many like that anymore.

You'll want the following:

A 6" machine vise (Kurt ang-lock type are good)
Parallel set
Edgefinder
6" Dial caliper
some T-nuts (you may want to go for a whole generic stud, step block, and toe clamp set)
Some collets - check the spindle taper, it's probably either R8 or "40-taper", but could be a #30 or even a Brown & Sharp #9 or #10, or (hopefully not) but potentially even a proprietary Gorton taper. You really need to find out which it is.
HSS Endmill set (2 flute should do fine for aluminum)
A set of drill bits
Some taps in the common sizes you use (1/4-20, 10-32, etc)
A drill chuck with shank to match your spindle taper
Dial Test indicator and magnetic base
Boring head with shank to match your spindle taper and a couple boring bars
Fly cutter
Drawbar wrench / brass hammer.

That should have you pretty well covered to get started and make most things.

For all of these items except the vise, Chinese is fine. All of this kind of stuff is very decent quality from China these days. I recommend Shars.com. They are discountmachine on ebay too. Little Machine Shop is another decent source.

For metal surfaces, WD-40 works well for cleaning. For painted surfaces, use whatever cleaner is available, but test on a small spot to ensure it doesn't soften the paint. WD-40 with a maroon scotch brite pad can be great for removing both rust and old oil, but be very gentle with a light tough on the sliding way surfaces if they are rusted. You don't want to remove any metal whatsoever there. You can be a bit more aggressive on the table if needed.

After it's all cleaned up, you'll want Mobile Vactra No. 2 way oil for all the sliding surfaces.

[Forhire]

Nice mill. Did you get a manual?

This page has some scans if not.
http://gorton-machine.org/machines/manuals.html

That mill used Brown and Sharp #9 (B & S #9) tooliong. Not as common as R-8. You'll want a fractional set of collets. A few weldon shank holders in common sizes that you use (3/8", 1/2", etc). And a drill chuck. You may start watching ebay. Sanddrag's list is fairly complete to get you started.

Mobil Vactra #2 is easy to source in gallons and is a good recommendation. If you can source some Mobil Vacuoline 1409 it is better on manual machines. Mobil removed the tackifiers from Vactra #2 to improve coolant separation on cnc machines. The Vacuoline 1409 sticks to the ways like is should. I order it in 5 gallon buckets.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by matthewdenny

Also how do we go about cleaning the grunge off of it?

Simple Green and water works well with rags. You ca use it on exposed metal but you need to be sure it dries and gets re-oiled after asap.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

Simple Green and water works well with rags. You ca use it on exposed metal but you need to be sure it dries and gets re-oiled after asap.

This works - but should probably point out that this rag should only be damp and not dripping wet: such that you get a film of water in places you can't oil .

WD40 and monitored doses of Evaporust have worked for me.
Be aware if you leave Evaporust on carbon steel you'll eventually get loose carbon on the surface. So don't do that. It won't harm anything but it will be dang near impossible to remove the dark spots and if you use jeans or something with a pattern that pattern will be on your machine tool for a few decades. All easily avoided by getting it off the machine in 1 hour or so.

[matthewdenny]

How many collets would we need? I'm not sure I understand why you need more than 1. Don't you take it out, change the tool and put it back? Also does anyone know of a source (other than eBay, which the school won't use) for B&S #9 collets?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by matthewdenny

How many collets would we need? I'm not sure I understand why you need more than 1. Don't you take it out, change the tool and put it back? Also does anyone know of a source (other than eBay, which the school won't use) for B&S #9 collets?

You need one for every size tool you intend to use. A standard set of R8 collets would be 1/16 to 7/8" in 1/16" increments. I dont know much about brown and sharpe collets but a quick googling shows they can be bought here You'll also want a drill chuck. For that you should be able to buy any drill chuck and then a B&S #9 to jacobs taper adapter and mate the two.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Cory

You need one for every size tool you intend to use. A standard set of R8 collets would be 1/16 to 7/8" in 1/16" increments. I dont know much about brown and sharpe collets but a quick googling shows they can be bought here You'll also want a drill chuck. For that you should be able to buy any drill chuck and then a B&S #9 to jacobs taper adapter and mate the two.

Adding on to this:
You probably won't need 1/16" increments. 99% of tooling for FRC is either 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", or 3/4". The only thing that I use 1/16" increment for is some dumb custom stuff that I made. In general you can get by with just 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" as long as you buy endmills in those shank sizes. The 5/8" was just for a 5/8" endmill. Anything between 1/8" and 3/8" endmills can be found with a 3/8" shank.
That being said, if you pick up a box of endmills at a machine tool auction, having all the 1/8" or even 1/16" increment sizes can come in handy.

[matthewdenny]

So lets say I have a 3/8" carbide end mill. Do I just place it in the 3/8" B&S Collet and start milling?

What about a 3/8" Drill bit?

Link to collet set: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=3011

[asid61]

Originally Posted by matthewdenny

So lets say I have a 3/8" carbide end mill. Do I just place it in the 3/8" B&S Collet and start milling?

What about a 3/8" Drill bit?

Link to collet set: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=3011

Place it in the collet, stick it in the spindle, tighten the drawbar, and then you're good to go.
For drill bits, it varies. For fractional sizes that you own the collet for, you can use the collet. Otherwise you'll need to use the drill chuck.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by matthewdenny

How many collets would we need? I'm not sure I understand why you need more than 1. Don't you take it out, change the tool and put it back? Also does anyone know of a source (other than eBay, which the school won't use) for B&S #9 collets?

<removed because inaccurate information, see Cory's post>

As far as where to find them besides eBay, you could check Craigslist, industrial auctions, or maybe ask local machine shops if they have any.

Edit: Also what Cory said.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by frcguy

I'm still learning a lot of this stuff, but I believe one of the reasons to have multiple collets is to be able to quickly switch in commonly used tools without having to undo the collet and change the tool. As far as where to find them besides eBay, you could check Craigslist, industrial auctions, or maybe ask local machine shops if they have any.

Edit: Also what Cory said.

You will have to unscrew the drawbar and remove the tool and collet for each (different size) tool you want to use. That won't change based on how many collets you have. You'd need something like an end mill holder or a collet chuck (which would use ER or some similar collapsible collet series) to be able to leave the tool in the holder. All standard collets for manual milling machines are going to be smooth bore that a tool will freely slide in and out of when not actively clamped by the machine.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by Cory

You'd need something like an end mill holder or a collet chuck (which would use ER or some similar collapsible collet series) to be able to leave the tool in the holder. All standard collets for manual milling machines are going to be smooth bore that a tool will freely slide in and out of when not actively clamped by the machine.

Oops, I was thinking end mill holder/collet chuck as I have more experience with the CNC mill stuff than manual. Thanks for the clarification!

[matthewdenny]

I have found a drill chuck with a straight 1/2" taper. Could I just put that in a collet for drilling?

(This B&S #9 stuff is hard to find. Can't locate a non-eBay endmill holder anywhere.)

[wilsonmw04]

If you are having trouble finding tooling, maybe the best bet would be to ask the company that donated the mill where they bought the tooling they used on the machine. It looks well loved/used. I bet they have a source they would be more than happy to share with you.