Moving Championships back

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by MikLast

Biggest con: FIRST Will never implement this. There isint much else to say.

Just saying FIRST will never implement this is not contributing to the thread. The whole point of this thread was to bring up discussion on the pros and cons of the idea. FIRST not ever doing it is not a pro or a con of AN IDEA as much as it is a result of the pros and cons. Just because a team will never implement a ball drive in competition season doesn't mean that we can't talk about it, guys.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

Just saying FIRST will never implement this is not contributing to the thread. The whole point of this thread was to bring up discussion on the pros and cons of the idea. FIRST not ever doing it is not a pro or a con of AN IDEA as much as it is a result of the pros and cons. Just because a team will never implement a ball drive in competition season doesn't mean that we can't talk about it, guys.

There's a small bit of difference between a cool concept or mechanism that isn't practical and an idea that will never be tried.

The mechanism has some inherent value in the process - design, manufacture, evaluate, iterate.

An idea that is a nonstarter (such as FIRST should crowd source the game design this year), while it may spark some interesting discussion, has significantly less value as an educational tool because there's no feedback loop to see if the discussion is correct. And if it's something that is already proven there's no real point in discussing it.

Which category does this discussion fall into? As worded - the former. As Cory stated, FIRST is not going to move the World Exhibition Events past the end date of school years. The Pros and Cons are largely irrelevant for that discussion.

However, of value may be a discussion of the impact off season events have on teams. It's effectively the same question (can we move the competition season to include some of the summer vacation?) but it is practical, applicable, and can actually be evaluated.

Also - schools don't all end at the same time across the globe, perhaps that would be another avenue of discussion. - Does the current World Exhibition Event fall within your school year? What impact does it have on your attendance?

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

Just because a team will never implement a ball drive in competition season...

..

[SpaceBiz]

Originally Posted by MikLast

Biggest con: FIRST Will never implement this. There isn't much else to say.

You seem to be forgetting about the upcoming water game where this idea would make total sense. Teams will definitely need extra time to modify their robot before champs because of the extra time to make everything water proof. Plus if you push Champs back after memorial day teams can use their local outdoor pools to have drive practice.

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by Cory

Not even worth discussing.

If only things not worth discussing weren't discussed on CD...

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Cory

...Not even worth discussing.

But we will anyways. For 4+ pages.

[Siri]

Do (and how do) other HS competitions hold major events in June? SkillsUSA held their championship on June 19-23. Does anyone know if graduating/graduated seniors attend this and how? How do they and other organizations (if there are any) get around the pitfalls discussed herein?

[jgerstein]

Originally Posted by Siri

Do (and how do) other HS competitions hold major events in June? SkillsUSA held their championship on June 19-23. Does anyone know if graduating/graduated seniors attend this and how? How do they and other organizations (if there are any) get around the pitfalls discussed herein?

There are definitely graduating/graduated seniors attending the SkillsUSA championship. This year, it conflicted with our district's graduation. I know at least one senior in our district missed graduation because of it.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Harrison.Smith

A few things that could be conflicts that immediately come to mind are

1. Studying for final exams.
2. Some schools end in mid/late May so champs could potentially be during the last week of school and therefore interfere with final exams.
3. Lots of other school clubs/teams/organizations start to have their banquets around mid/late May.
4. Extending the season further puts more pressure on mentors/teachers/students/parents.
5. Some states have state champs starting in May.

A later end to the season is not such a crazy idea--can we say "spring sports?" Almost every high school in the US has state championship events i late May and early June. (I think Texas may be an exception with mid-May championships, but Texas can just decide to secede if this is a problem ;^)). All of those athletes are studying for final exams (and the distance runners and swimmers have GPAs that are just as good).

As for FRC state champs, don't you think that they'd just swap the dates to early May or late April instead to fill the void?

As for post-school championships, there are many national sports championships held in June and July. But there may be a problem with schools covering team expenses. On the other hand, how many FRC programs are formally embedded into schools the same way that sports teams are? In my experience, they run like clubs, and many musical and performing arts clubs have summer tours.

[GeeTwo]

High school graduation in St. Tammany schools in 2017 is May 3 through May 9th. The seinior's last day is somewhat before that. If CMP were moved back even one more week from St. Louis, we would probably lose all our seniors.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

High school graduation in St. Tammany schools in 2017 is May 3 through May 9th. The seinior's last day is somewhat before that. If CMP were moved back even one more week from St. Louis, we would probably lose all our seniors.

Your seniors leave just because they graduate? You might want to fix that. After spending 6 weeks building, and another 8 weeks competing and iterating why would you not go to world's just because you graduated?

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Your seniors leave just because they graduate? You might want to fix that. After spending 6 weeks building, and another 8 weeks competing and iterating why would you not go to world's just because you graduated?

As stated above, many school districts would prohibit graduated seniors from traveling on school sponsored trips. In that case, the seniors would not choose to leave, but would not be allowed to travel to worlds.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by bkahl

As stated above, many school districts would prohibit* graduated seniors from traveling on school sponsored trips. In that case, the seniors would not choose to leave, but would not be allowed to travel to worlds.

So then lets call the graduated seniors mentors. Or why not just have the graduated seniors attend without going through the school.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

So then lets call the graduated seniors mentors. Or why not just have the graduated seniors attend without going through the school.

I'm not sure you quite understand the massive school-politics pitfalls involved with either suggestion.

The second suggestion is more straightforwards: That's always an option. But, that would mean that they'd be traveling on their own dime, in most cases--the school wouldn't be able (er, willing) to help out; in some cases that could also mean that the team wouldn't be able to help out. That alone would probably drop a number of graduated students.

The first suggestion has a large impact on team finances and dynamics. OK, so you graduated. You are now a mentor. That means that instead of bunking with 3 other persons in the room, you get only 1. That means that the number of rooms needed for those seniors doubles--and the cost to have those rooms doubles. (This would be driven by school and team policies, mind you, but that's a pretty typical breakdown.) Better be good at fundraising.

And the team dynamics part... Let's put it this way, could YOU mentor a team, as a MENTOR (including all roles filled by the mentors), and have the students that were your peers two weeks ago treat you as a mentor? I doubt it--there are very few people that could make that sort of transition that quickly and easily. So as the seniors find their new roles with the team, there's bound to be some, shall we say, establishment of the pecking order--which would have an unfortunate tendency to create friction within the team that doesn't need to be there.

Could it be done, sure. Is it going to be more hassle than it's worth, probably.



I actually had something similar in college--but in that case, most of the team was seniors and this was the senior project, and as an engineering competition team sponsored by the school, we weren't the only team competing after the end of the semester so they're somewhat used to that sort of thing. I'd figure that most high schools shut down their teams after graduation and only resume them for preseason conditioning workouts.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'm not sure you quite understand the massive school-politics pitfalls involved with either suggestion.

The second suggestion is more straightforwards: That's always an option. But, that would mean that they'd be traveling on their own dime, in most cases--the school wouldn't be able (er, willing) to help out; in some cases that could also mean that the team wouldn't be able to help out. That alone would probably drop a number of graduated students.

Good point. Intentionally violating or going going school policies will lead to bad relations with the school administration. Never a good thing.

We could just shorten build season to 4 weeks. (or not.)