STEM vs. STEAM

[Ginger Power]

I have a feeling this will be a hot topic throughout the year, so I'm curious to hear what people think about the inclusion of Art in STEM. With the release of the 2017 FRC game "FIRST STEAMworks", it's pretty clear where FIRST stands on the topic.

I'm personally of the opinion that adding Art to STEM waters things down*. At some point it makes sense to draw the line on the number of topics included or else there is just too much. If you asked people which of the following is not like the other, I'm pretty confident Art would be the most popular choice.

There are also very creative/artistic elements already built into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. Design Engineering is basically using physical principles and creativity to build products to serve a need. The creativity needed to be a design engineer is much like the creativity needed to be an artist. The difference is the application of physics, and math. With that said, where does art fit into STEM?

I'd love to hear what everybody thinks!

*This doesn't mean I don't think there is value in the arts. I absolutely do.

[Justin Montois]

I like it.

I certainly respect your position but I think a lot of people might be turned off to 'STEM' fields because they often feel rigid. Formulas, Standards, Benchmarks, ETC. While there certainly is a need for this I think from the outside STEM fields often don't look that exciting. Including Art could help people look at fields perhaps they overlooked in the past.

Bottom Line: If it helps more students find their passion in life, i'm game.

[ArthurA]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

I'm personally of the opinion that adding Art to STEM waters things down*. At some point it makes sense to draw the line on the number of topics included or else there is just too much. If you asked people which of the following is not like the other, I'm pretty confident Art would be the most popular choice.

Agree with this - I think that Art is extremely different from Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths not just in the subject matter, but in the challenges that they face. Many STEM fields have an issue with supply; Art does not. STEM has major challenges with getting women into the field, Art does not. Lumping art in with the others seems disingenuous and turns the acronym into a vague platitude, sort of like a catch all buzzword to advertise programs.

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

Including Art could help people look at fields perhaps they overlooked in the past.

Bottom Line: If it helps more students find their passion in life, i'm game.

I don't see how throwing Art into what is already a very large list of fields helps students to find their passion. If they are interested in STEM and also into art, students will find ways to combine their interests anyway.

Of course none of this is to diminish the value in arts, just that they should not be included in the STEM acronym as they are important for different reasons.

[wajirock]

An important part of this debate is how we define "Art". In the context of STEAM I personally think that the word "Art" refers to the fine arts, and according to Wikipedia "the fine arts commonly include additional forms [of art], such a film, photography, video production/editing, design, sequential art, conceptual art, and printmaking". Those first three items have been a core part of FIRST for a very long time. Teams have entire sub-teams dedicated to film, photography, and video production. The Chairman's award, the most prestigious award in FIRST, heavily revolves around those three concepts. There are entire competitions within FIRST dedicated to making films and animations. But photography, film, and video development do not fall into the categories of science, technology, engineering, or math. Marketing FIRST solely as a STEM program does not properly include those aspects of FIRST; as more and more teams make the fine arts a more integrated part of their team and culture, and in turn the culture of FIRST, it is important that FIRST accurately markets itself as what it has in store for future innovators.

[Philip Arola]

Originally Posted by wajirock

Marketing FIRST solely as a STEM program does not properly include those aspects of FIRST; as more and more teams make the fine arts a more integrated part of their team and culture, and in turn the culture of FIRST, it is important that FIRST accurately markets itself as what it has in store for future innovators.

We teach how to use a first aid kit to our members. Should we now call it SHTEAM (Science Health Tech Engineering Arts Math)?

Nothing exists in a vacuum. I don't know of anyone who actually thinks the arts are useless, and have zero place in FIRST. The point is what the emphasis of the program is. One of the goals of FIRST is to make scientists and engineers "rock stars." Many artists are already immensely popular, they don't need the extra boost compared to scientists. Sure, Steven Hawking is popular, but honestly, more artists are well known than scientists.

[EricH]

Here's one reason to include the "A".

Let's say that you have two companies, and they're making and selling almost the exact same thing to consumers. Just for the sake of argument, let's go with a toaster. So, two toasters that for all intents and purposes do the exact same thing, same settings, all that sort of thing. BUT! One of the two is "bare-bones"--just has enough "package" to meet safety requirements. The other is "packaged" nicely so that it looks nice, while still being safe.

Which company will sell more toasters, all other things being equal? (Translation: Which company do YOU want to work for? )


I'd be willing to bet that that second company sells more toasters, even if the price is slightly higher.


I believe the correct term here is "industrial designer". Basically, someone who can make a product look really good. Now, the engineers know this person as "devil's advocate", because they've got to fit everything in the package that said person creates, and that person knows the engineers as "devil's advocate" because there's always that one thing sticking out that has to be made to look good...

I'd have to say that if a designer like that has some engineering background, huge asset to a company doing consumer goods (and maybe some non-consumer goods, too). And if the engineers have some art, that's also good.

[Marc P.]

Originally Posted by Philip Arola

The point is what the emphasis of the program is. One of the goals of FIRST is to make scientists and engineers "rock stars." Many artists are already immensely popular, they don't need the extra boost.

The emphasis of the program is "Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology". Art means many things to many people- to some, it's music, painting, and writing. To others, it's a false color representation of otherwise non-visible wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum produced by a NASA scientist from the Hubble Space Telescope. In the engineering world, there's an entire artistic category called Industrial Design- FRC even has an award for it, sponsored by General Motors, which "Celebrates form and function in an efficiently designed machine that effectively addresses the game challenge."

The bottom line is, art is significantly more than music, painting, poetry, crafts, or whatever stereotypes are generally associated with the word. Art turns the math and physics of electric propulsion into a Tesla Model S, or internal combustion into a Porsche 911/Bugatti Veyron/(insert favorite supercar), or audio decompression algorithms into an iPod, or an FRC game into an aesthetically pleasing and highly functional robot. I would argue anyone who doesn't think an FRC Team 118 robot is a work of art has no understanding of the word. Art is the fusion of form and function, the look and feel of something complimenting how it works. Art is being able to communicate how a design came about, or the inspiration for a component. It's sharing and expressing ideas. Art is whatever you make it, and it has as much of a place in science and engineering as the math and physics. Whether it's a stunning visual representation of infrared, ultraviolet, and x-ray wavelengths of a distant galaxy, or the "poetry in motion" of a perfect two boulder autonomous, there are few things more inspiring than art, and if that isn't the emphasis of the program, I don't know what is.

[Michael Corsetto]

Every program has the opportunity to decide what they intend to promote and accomplish.

If FIRST really is hopping aboard the STEAM train, I hope they back it up with sufficient promotion and inclusion of the arts. Part of me says they used it only so far as a nice pun for a game name. Time will tell.

Every other program (teams, schools, etc) has the choice to focus on what they deem beneficial to their communities. We don't intend to shift our focus because of this random FRC game title, but could in the future depending on what we determine is best to serve our community.

I expect everyone's thoughts on this will be different, but this certainly is a matter of emphasis, and no size fits all. I hope if FIRST says they are about the Arts, they back it up with their actions.

-Mike

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Every program has the opportunity to decide what they intend to promote and accomplish.

If FIRST really is hopping aboard the STEAM train, I hope they back it up with sufficient promotion and inclusion of the arts. Part of me says they used it only so far as a nice pun for a game name. Time will tell.

Every other program (teams, schools, etc) has the choice to focus on what they deem beneficial to their communities. We don't intend to shift our focus because of this random FRC game title, but could in the future depending on what we determine is best to serve our community.

I expect everyone's thoughts on this will be different, but this certainly is a matter of emphasis, and no size fits all. I hope if FIRST says they are about the Arts, they back it up with their actions.

-Mike

This is why Mike is one of my favorite posters here on CD - and a personal hero of mine - he takes what I am 'trying' to think and then can put it so succinctly!

[EricH]

Hedgehog inadvertently reminded me of someone who I don't think has a CD account, but who would be very suited to weigh in on this discussion (and who was on the teaser discussion panel earlier): Emma Dumont, of FRC980. I've got a feeling that she'd be able to argue both (all?) sides equally well.

[D.Allred]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

... I hope if FIRST says they are about the Arts, they back it up with their actions.

-Mike

Mike,
Good points as always.

I would place the entire teaser and downloadable content from FIRST in the "art" category. So far, so good?

David

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by D.Allred

Mike,
Good points as always.

I would place the entire teaser and downloadable content from FIRST in the "art" category. So far, so good?

David

David,

It's very artistic set of media indeed!

In my mind, FIRST supporting the "A" in STEAM would look more like 5-8 million in scholarships for Art Students at Art-focused colleges? Or maybe rewarding teams that graduate many college Art students from their FRC team, even if they lack promotion of Engineering or Science? If STEAM is the new way forward, I would expect Art to receive the same level of emphasis and respect program-wide as the rest of STEAM.

I haven't seen that level of support yet, but will be interested to see how this develops.

-Mike

[Philip Arola]

One overlooked detail here is that FIRST does not have a monopoly on STEM outreach. School districts in my area advertise their STEM programs as well, and sometimes even tried to advertise STEAM, to little effect. The whole point to STEM is to be a focused path of education, and when STEAM is mentioned, it reaches well beyond CAD or design. So perhaps I'm just a bit jaded from my prior experience with STEAM. Again, not that art school is useless; as I and others have said before, art can be extraordinarily complex if rigor is applied. STEAM becomes too broad and meaningless, and devolves into a buzzword.

And this is what I hear from parents, mind you, not just my singular opinion.

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I don't really care either way but one thing I do notice is that art is generally looked down upon at least by young people. All the unemployment or useless art degree jokes/memes are very common on social media and at least in my area, engineering students generally look down on art. To claim that STEM people and students already know art is important isn't quite accurate. That said the same could be said for almost every other discipline such as communication skills, English, and business.

Stereotypes about engineers looking down upon art majors is also an exaggeration. Sure, I've made jokes about it, and I cannot for the life of me understand the utility of some specific degrees, but I and many engineers love Steve Vai, of Frank Zappa fame, who attended the Berklee College of Music. Or Quincy Jones, or Joey Kramer of Aerosmith, both of whom also went to that institution.
Or Jimmy Page, who has no musical education.
Or Brian May, who actually went to university as a physics major.

By the way, prejudice based on what major you have does cut both ways, believe it or not. I've heard plenty of art majors scoff at engineers.

[Ginger Power]

Does adding Art to STEM blur the focus of the acronym? To me, the purpose of STEM is to highlight a need in our society for more people in STEM related fields.

An example that shapes my opinion on this subject: My team is working to build a STEM Center at our high school. The purpose of this STEM Center would be to house technical education classes like: Mechanical Drafting (CAD), Architectural Design, General Tech, etc. Our robotics team would also have a permanent facility in the building, and we are also pushing for more robotics based curriculum.

Now if my robotics team were pushing for a STEAM center we would presumably need to share the space with the art classes. We would also need to share funding with the art classes. People/Businesses in the community who are donating to build the STEAM Center wouldn't know if their money is going to Robotics or Art. In my mind the A in the acronym blurs the focus.

[Philip Arola]

Originally Posted by Marc P.

The emphasis of the program is "Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology". Art means many things to many people- to some, it's music, painting, and writing. To others, it's a false color representation of otherwise non-visible wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum produced by a NASA scientist from the Hubble Space Telescope. In the engineering world, there's an entire artistic category called Industrial Design- FRC even has an award for it, sponsored by General Motors, which "Celebrates form and function in an efficiently designed machine that effectively addresses the game challenge."

The bottom line is, art is significantly more than music, painting, poetry, crafts, or whatever stereotypes are generally associated with the word. Art turns the math and physics of electric propulsion into a Tesla Model S, or internal combustion into a Porsche 911/Bugatti Veyron/(insert favorite supercar), or audio decompression algorithms into an iPod, or an FRC game into an aesthetically pleasing and highly functional robot. I would argue anyone who doesn't think an FRC Team 118 robot is a work of art has no understanding of the word. Art is the fusion of form and function, the look and feel of something complimenting how it works. Art is being able to communicate how a design came about, or the inspiration for a component. It's sharing and expressing ideas. Art is whatever you make it, and it has as much of a place in science and engineering as the math and physics. Whether it's a stunning visual representation of infrared, ultraviolet, and x-ray wavelengths of a distant galaxy, or the "poetry in motion" of a perfect two boulder autonomous, there are few things more inspiring than art, and if that isn't the emphasis of the program, I don't know what is.

Saying everything is art does not compel me to incorportate art into STEM.

When people refer to art education, they mean the fine arts, such painting, filmography, music, etc. When people say STEM, they generally are speaking in the context of education.

If STEM become STEAM, and especially if everything is art, then the entire point of emphasizing STEM education is out the window. We essentially are saying all education is important, which while true, is an aimless statement.

Again, not that there is no point to art, nor to say the art doesn't belong in FIRST, but rather, where does it end? If we start including everything that may be involved with FIRST, then how big are we willing to let the acronym get? I think a letter relating to professionalism/teamwork is more important AND relevant than art.