Location of Georgia District Events

[kristinweiss]

As a part of an Atlanta based team who will be driving over an hour to our closest district event this year, I decided to map out all of the Georgia FRC teams and the location of our four district events this year to see how far other teams will be having to travel too. The results are kind of shocking as it appears that none of the district events are in parts of the state where we have large clusters of teams. I figured others may be interested in seeing the map and I am interested to hear what others think of this. I know here in Georgia, hosting events at high schools tends to be frowned upon, but I think it is a bit much to go this far out of the way of teams just to find non-high school venues to host events.

Map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13d...rA&usp=sharing

*If I forgot a team or have a team in the wrong location please let me know so that I can fix it!

[BenDSterling]

Originally Posted by kristinweiss

As a part of an Atlanta based team who will be driving over an hour to our closest district event this year, I decided to map out all of the Georgia FRC teams and the location of our four district events this year to see how far other teams will be having to travel too. The results are kind of shocking as it appears that none of the district events are in parts of the state where we have large clusters of teams. I figured others may be interested in seeing the map and I am interested to hear what others think of this. I know here in Georgia, hosting events at high schools tends to be frowned upon, but I think it is a bit much to go this far out of the way of teams just to find non-high school venues to host events. [/size]

I like then map! I agree the competitions are way too far away from the majority of the teams. I didn't really realize how bad it was until I saw the map. It also makes it hard for volunteers, as most of the volunteers are in the same areas as most of the teams.

That being said, there is a reason the completions are so far away, and it isn't on purpose. This is already being worked on for next year. High school are just too small to host FRC competitions. Anyone who was at the KSU event last year knows how tight that was, and high schools would most likely be smaller. Hopefully next year we will be able to secure sole venues in the Kennesaw/Marietta/Roswell/Alpharetta area.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by BenDSterling

High school are just too small to host FRC competitions.

FIM begs to differ with you.

17 of our competitions are in high schools.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

FIM begs to differ with you.

17 of our competitions are in high schools.

High school sizes vary significantly depending on the state. This is to say nothing of differences in format/construction or cultural aspects that may lead to building larger gymnasiums that are suitable for events. Whether it works in Michigan may or may not have a bearing on whether it will work in Georgia.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by BenDSterling

I like then map! I agree the competitions are way too far away from the majority of the teams. I didn't really realize how bad it was until I saw the map. It also makes it hard for volunteers, as most of the volunteers are in the same areas as most of the teams.

That being said, there is a reason the completions are so far away, and it isn't on purpose. This is already being worked on for next year. High school are just too small to host FRC competitions. Anyone who was at the KSU event last year knows how tight that was, and high schools would most likely be smaller. Hopefully next year we will be able to secure sole venues in the Kennesaw/Marietta/Roswell/Alpharetta area.

The GRITS offseason event was hosted at a high school in 2015. I do think we have some larger 6A schools in the Metro Area that can host district events. What I heard initially was the reason for the locations was due to an effort to expose students to in-state technical colleges and universities. The district events are partially hosted by engineering and technology departments at Columbus State University, Albany Tech, Dalton State College, and Riverside Military Academy (a college-prep school). I'm hoping the switch to Riverside Military from KSU indicates that we are exploring high school venues.

While it is a noble effort, I believe that a convention at the state championship, ALA the Championship Event would be better to educate and raise awareness of in-state engineering and technology degree programs. The district events themselves should be cheap and easy to travel to.

[BenDSterling]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

The GRITS offseason event was hosted at a high school in 2015. I do think we have some larger 6A schools in the Metro Area that can host district events. What I heard initially was the reason for the locations was due to an effort to expose students to in-state technical colleges and universities. The district events are partially hosted by engineering and technology departments at Columbus State University, Albany Tech, Dalton State College, and Riverside Military Academy (a college-prep school). I'm hoping the switch to Riverside Military from KSU indicates that we are exploring high school venues.

While it is a noble effort, I believe that a convention at the state championship, ALA the Championship Event would be better to educate and raise awareness of in-state engineering and technology degree programs. The district events themselves should be cheap and easy to travel to.

You are right about wanting to expose the students to in-state technical colleges. That is one of the reasons we tried colleges before convention centers (although dalton and Albany will be in convention centers). We also try to partner with the colleges for support (for example at KSU they did a lot of the AV, and at UGA they brought a LOT of volunteers).

When I said high schools are too small I did not just mean space, but also resources. For example for Riverside Military Academy, we have to bring in a generator for power (which is a big hassle). Highs school venues simply are not designed to hold large events. In addition, High Schools tend to put school events first, making it hard to find a date that works for us the them.

As for the reason we went for Riverside Military Academy over KSU, it wasn't our choice. KSU said no to hosting both GRITS and a District Event (due to basketball). We did try to find another venue in the area but were unable to do so. This is why we went with Riverside Military Academy. One thing to note on Riverside Military Academy is that although it is a high school, it is definitely not a high school gym. This venue is about 7x the size of all the high school gyms we looked at. You could almost fit 9 full basketball courts inside the room. So this high school worked out size wise but most high school don't have a venue event remotely that large.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by BenDSterling

KSU said no to hosting both GRITS and a District Event.

The reason for the KSU 'no' has to do with building scheduling, not a desire to host the event. KSU would extremely love to host but there are extreme demands on buildings, and academic requirements are always at the front of the line.

So hopefully, a proper dedicated facility can be built on campus, then KSU can host many many events with much love.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by BenDSterling

When I said high schools are too small I did not just mean space, but also resources. For example for Riverside Military Academy, we have to bring in a generator for power (which is a big hassle). In addition, High Schools tend to put school events first, making it hard to find a date that works for us the them.

I will wager a guess that inner city Atlanta teams needing to travel nontrivial distances for all 2-3 of their PCH events would also consider that a hassle.

[BenDSterling]

Originally Posted by ebarker

The reason for the KSU 'no' has to do with building scheduling, not a desire to host the event. KSU would extremely love to host but there are extreme demands on buildings, and academic requirements are always at the front of the line.

So hopefully, a proper dedicated facility can be built on campus, then KSU can host many many events with much love.

KSU was great to work with last year and I hope we will be able to have events there next year (although the gym was a little small). They were very welcoming and understanding.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I will wager a guess that inner city Atlanta teams needing to travel nontrivial distances for all 2-3 of their PCH events would also consider that a hassle.

1648 tries to coordinate travel with the other Atlanta Public School teams so that we can all share buses, hotels, and travel costs in general. We believe that reducing the financial requirements for a team to be able to compete is the best way to increase sustainability and impact to students in the district system.

[Ginger Bread]

Yeah, 4941 was planning to go to Columbus, but it was full when we registered for our second event and now we have to go all the way to Gainseville and deal with the Atlanta traffic on load in day. The Perry regional in 2015 was nice for us, and I think Peachtree and Perry were fairly central locations for Georgia teams that year. I would think that if we could get the Congress center in Atlanta for district champs instead of UGA (not many teams very close to Athens although a great venue), then it would be more centralized for pch teams. But things probably won't get changed to fit distribution of teams until more teams in southern and central Georgia emerge.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by BenDSterling

I like then map! I agree the competitions are way too far away from the majority of the teams. I didn't really realize how bad it was until I saw the map. It also makes it hard for volunteers, as most of the volunteers are in the same areas as most of the teams.

That being said, there is a reason the completions are so far away, and it isn't on purpose. This is already being worked on for next year. High school are just too small to host FRC competitions. Anyone who was at the KSU event last year knows how tight that was, and high schools would most likely be smaller. Hopefully next year we will be able to secure sole venues in the Kennesaw/Marietta/Roswell/Alpharetta area.

Originally Posted by BenDSterling

You are right about wanting to expose the students to in-state technical colleges. That is one of the reasons we tried colleges before convention centers (although dalton and Albany will be in convention centers). We also try to partner with the colleges for support (for example at KSU they did a lot of the AV, and at UGA they brought a LOT of volunteers).

When I said high schools are too small I did not just mean space, but also resources. For example for Riverside Military Academy, we have to bring in a generator for power (which is a big hassle). Highs school venues simply are not designed to hold large events. In addition, High Schools tend to put school events first, making it hard to find a date that works for us the them.

As for the reason we went for Riverside Military Academy over KSU, it wasn't our choice. KSU said no to hosting both GRITS and a District Event (due to basketball). We did try to find another venue in the area but were unable to do so. This is why we went with Riverside Military Academy. One thing to note on Riverside Military Academy is that although it is a high school, it is definitely not a high school gym. This venue is about 7x the size of all the high school gyms we looked at. You could almost fit 9 full basketball courts inside the room. So this high school worked out size wise but most high school don't have a venue event remotely that large.

High schools being too small, having a bad atmosphere or being bad venues is by and large a complete and total myth.

Of course not all high schools have the capacity to work. Hosting an event requires at least two large buildings on campus at a minimum, plus appropriate connecting hallways and paths. You need seating for all the teams, plus a some extra for VIPs and people off the streets. And no, it's not going to be as glamorous as Worlds. Sometimes, there are miscommunications and schedule issues, but colleges are exactly the same way.

But it doesn't have to be, and overall, I at least find high schools to be better venues than the locations we had last year, not worse. Stadium seating is nice, as it produces good sight lines and better seats than bleachers. But when you barely have a hundred people in the stands, then it looks much, much worse than any gym. I would rather have a filled crowd, actively engaged in the game and making for an exciting environment rather than an empty stadium and playing in front of nobody.

The problem you seem to be referring to is not the seating, however, but the space in the pits. And there I agree with you. At both Albany and KSU, there were barely enough rooms for the teams there, not to mention a practice field and any other important resources. But just because the venue has less seating doesn't mean pits will be smaller. Most high schools with a second gym would much more easily fit a practice field and 40 pits than KSU fit a half field and 36 teams.

I'm well acquainted with the Chesapeake district, and I got a large amount of feedback that supported Southwest VA in Christiansburg, VA as a one of the best venues in 2016. Can you guess where that one was held?

You don't need nine basketball courts to have a fantastic event.

As we have found with Kennesaw and many other universities this year, there will be challenges to getting the exact right locations. Am I a fan of the locations of the events? Absolutely not, but they could be worse. Do I enjoy the massive amount of seating capacity these venues have? I don't see anything else as more pointless. But I understand why these locations are where they are. I do believe that if you want to drive team growth in an area, there are few better ways to do so than have events there. So while there really should be an Atlanta-based event (inner-city team travel is a very big issue), I understand where GeorgiaFIRST is coming from.

High schools will eventually become the norm. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

Sidenote: Both Albany and Dalton are associated with technical colleges in the area. Gainesville is truly connected to Lanier Technical College, which hosts their athletic events at Riverside Military Academy. All of this partnership is designed to help nurture a great relationship between the universities and technical colleges of GA and GeorgiaFIRST.

[Rombus]

Originally Posted by TDav540

High schools being too small, having a bad atmosphere or being bad venues is by and large a complete and total myth.
....
And no, it's not going to be as glamorous as Worlds.
....
But when you barely have a hundred people in the stands, then it looks much, much worse than any gym. I would rather have a filled crowd, actively engaged in the game and making for an exciting environment rather than an empty stadium and playing in front of nobody.
....
High schools will eventually become the norm. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

In Columbus and Albany, I felt there were very appropriate sized crowds. Of course your not filling the stands for every qualification match, but I did not see that at worlds either. I know some of the teams I talked to enjoyed the fact it was at an "Arena". It made it an event to them, something more memorable than a high school gym. Some teams that go to the districts wont make the state championship. Most teams that go to states wont get to Worlds, but if GA First can make it an memorable event for every competing team for the time being, then why not? Its inevitable that High School events will be the future, especially if FIRST Grows, but i think we have quite a few years before that's the norm.

The other nice part of "Arena" scale events is you can have the local community tie into the event. The Columbus event was part of a Mini MakerFair, and was used by the local schools to drum up interest in STEM for the grade and middle-schoolers who don't have FTC/FFL Teams yet.

On a purely selfish note: Things like a Loading Dock and proper facilities to accept Semis make load in and load out much easier on the volunteers. I got to experience 2 years of helping load in and load out a off season high school based event back in '10 and '11 when the field fit in the back of a 27' box truck. The one bay loading dock was off the lunch room kitchen. Some of the road cases barely fit and required some expert maneuvering. It sounds silly, but even the little things like this make a big difference when it comes to how smooth an event can go.

[Billfred]

I have no dog in this fight, but I will contribute the following:

1) Ooof, yeah, I would've thought the Atlanta metro area would've been able to line up something.
2) This should be incentive for metro Atlanta teams to work on a bid for next year. I don't know the Peachtree process and couldn't find it on their website, but if it's anything like the IndianaFIRST process (which played out, in part, one desk over from me at work so I started to get a handle on some concepts) I doubt they'd mind having additional viable host options. Like Ed Barker said above, venue availability is everything for where district events can be held. Reach out and ask.
3) I had heard once that the Horry County school district is a sponsor of the Palmetto Regional partly because it's cheaper for them to incentivize the event in Myrtle Beach than pay travel for their teams to play elsewhere. With the Atlanta schools pooling on travel, that may be an angle to work with the powers that be.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Rombus

In Columbus and Albany, I felt there were very appropriate sized crowds. Of course your not filling the stands for every qualification match, but I did not see that at worlds either. I know some of the teams I talked to enjoyed the fact it was at an "Arena". It made it an event to them, something more memorable than a high school gym.

Is there any data to back this up, or am I/are we just expected to be forcefed this undying meme of more arenaz = more better? There are traceable examples of cash-strapped/cash-hungry RPCs poaching team sponsors for lavish-ish events in arenas and convention centers, but the idea that teams like arenas is something that to my knowledge is a) unproven, at best and b) a result of the gross miscommunication of the value proposition teams can face when the region focuses on cheaper venues.