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Unread 07-01-2017, 23:11
Boltman Boltman is offline
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

what happens to fuel in the corners?
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Unread 07-01-2017, 23:19
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
Here's a photo of the Boiler innards used to index the Fuel and pit the balls out the back.
My understanding was that there are two separate processors for the high and low efficiency goals. Which one is this? It appears similar to the low goal innards shown in The Boiler video tour, but without a board covering the corners, which could possibly cause fuel to be stuck, thus never counted.

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of information we have been given about the processing rate and total capacity for the high and low goals. The team versions of the models are a poor representation that have no ability for us to simulate either.

Edit: I realize now that there are feet in the background. This has to be the low goal. So my follow up question is, do you have a picture of the innards for the high goal? Thanks!
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Unread 08-01-2017, 01:14
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Boltman View Post
what happens to fuel in the corners?
Fuel can not fall into the corners...
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Unread 08-01-2017, 01:44
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Eugene Fang View Post
What if you score 300 balls in 10 seconds?
Then your alliance is an absolute monster.

But more to your point, the goals would likely overflow and fuel would fall out, leading to it not being scored. As for the OP, FIRST hasn't specified how many balls this would take anywhere I can find.
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Unread 08-01-2017, 01:45
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Jpatterson1710 View Post
Fuel can not fall into the corners...
Murphy loves statements like these.
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Unread 08-01-2017, 03:55
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss View Post
Murphy loves statements like these.
True Although hopefully us field staff would quickly notice the issue, and not only physically repair the game element, but also update the scores within the FMS. Although if the updated scores end up changing the outcome of the match or RP, I think a case could.. maybe.. possibly.. in some potential way be made for a field fault, considering the rate at which fuel is counted is limited.

Undoubtedly this game has a ton of points of failure, and added complexity, but trust the volunteers. This game is going to be great.
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Unread 08-01-2017, 08:43
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Yeah, I still have not found anything that gives a suggestion on how many balls the lower boiler especially can hold before it overflows. Because it is possible to just dump a load into the lower boiler it appears to me that it might be unable to process the balls fast enough. I do not see it unreasonable to think that 100 balls could fit in a robot and all 100 of those be dumped in 3 seconds or less. By the time the robot pulls away there are still about 85 balls in that goal and I am not sure if it can actually hold that many before they start dumping out onto the floor. It would be nice to get a solid answer from FIRST as to how many balls can the goal hold? (assuming it is not processing them)
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Unread 08-01-2017, 10:04
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Here's the back of the Boiler.
The top balls just roll out through a trough, while the lower balls are sucked out.

Bottom innards photo is in post 15
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Unread 09-01-2017, 04:24
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
Here's a photo of the Boiler innards used to index the Fuel and pit the balls out the back.
Back of the boiler photo is in post 23
Thanks for this photo. As a rough estimate it looks like the cylinder is about 6 fuels in diameter or 30" and 2 fuels in height or 10". This gives a cylinder volume of about 7,069 cu. in. With a fuel volume of 65 cu. in. and a loose packing factor of 60% that give a capacity of 65. It looks like a 14 slot carousel for a total of 79. Guessing that at least another 20 could stack above the cylinder height without spilling out it looks like the low goal can hold at least 100.

In the boiler field tour video the view into the low goal shows a plate even with the top of the cylinder that covers the corners. It looks like the plate isn't in this photo.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 08:27
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by TerryS View Post
It looks like the plate isn't in this photo.
I heard that the indexer was installed late, and a few of the supporting pieces weren't quite ready. So I speculate that the cover plate to keep the balls inside the cylinder and out of the corners is just not installed the photo.
The field crew was up late the night before Kickoff assembling.

P.S.
I think the top balls are handled with an indexer identical to the bottom indexer. You can see the base of the top indexer matches the base of the bottom indexer if you zoom in on that photo of the back.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 08:33
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
the cover plate to keep the balls inside the cylinder and out of the corners is just not installed the photo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryS View Post
Guessing that at least another 20 could stack above the cylinder height without spilling out it looks like the low goal can hold at least 100.
If Mark's statement is true, and there's going to be a piece to keep balls out of the corners, then your estimate of ~100 might even be on the low side!
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Unread 09-01-2017, 08:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mman1506 View Post
According to the manual you'd have to wait about 60 seconds for it to count the fuel. The Fuel would still be sent to the return and overflow bins at the same rate.


I totally missed this, where in the manual is it?


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Unread 09-01-2017, 12:43
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Round 2 of my estimations for the high efficiency boiler goal.

Here is a picture of the cylinder and cone stack pulled directly from the Solidworks field drawing.



I would guess that there is some sort of indexer at the top similar to the bottom feeder, so lets assume that only the cylinder and the cone can hold excess fuel, and the of the innards are used to organize and count fuel.

Boiler Stack Cylinder
Radius: 7.5"
Height: 30"
Volume: 5,301 cubic inches

Boiler Stack Truncated cone
Height: 9"
Upper radius: 10.875"
Lower radius: 7.5"
Volume: 2,413.5 cubic inches

Total Volume: 7714.5 cubic inches

Fuel volume: 65.45 cubic inches

Random close pack of a sphere: ~64%

Total capacity of boiler stack: 75.4 fuel.

The boiler processes fuel in the high efficiency goal at a rate of ~ 5 fuel per second. Which means it would take ~15 seconds to process it all.

Firing 8 fuel a second (A feat I see very few teams accomplishing), a robot would need 25 seconds to fill the high efficiency boiler, firing a total of 200 fuel with 100% accuracy.

The max volume of a robot (34,560 cube in.) would hold 338 fuel, which obviously is not feasible. 200 fuel packed randomly would fill ~ 20,450 cubic inches. This would leave ~ 40% of the total robot volume available for drive train, and shooter.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 12:51
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema View Post
Round 2 of my estimations for the high efficiency boiler goal.

Here is a picture of the cylinder and cone stack pulled directly from the Solidworks field drawing.
.....

I would not feel safe working on the basis of those drawings. they are obviously rough sketches and there is no way to tell how tall the real cylinder is and where the counter is placed along it's length.

In the version I opened (STP files) there was also a hexagonal plate blocking the chute mid way... did you not have that?
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:12
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

The bigger question is how many balls can fit on a robot?
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