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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2017, 13:20
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Leav View Post
I would not feel safe working on the basis of those drawings. they are obviously rough sketches and there is no way to tell how tall the real cylinder is and where the counter is placed along it's length.

In the version I opened (STP files) there was also a hexagonal plate blocking the chute mid way... did you not have that?
Interesting, I just double checked, the boiler I was measuring doesn't have that hexagonal plate, but the other one does.. I must have missed that. The field walkthrough video's doesn't show that plate at that level though...
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:24
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

It would be nice if FIRST would make a few more field videos showing from the field side and behind the wall what happens if they dump 50 ball into the high and low goal slots.

Since I know Q&A isn't the place to resolve this - does anyone know where such a request could be directed?

Thanks!

-matto-
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:28
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
The bigger question is how many balls can fit on a robot?
I'd echo this and add that the amount of Fuel that can fit in the Return bin is more important (and less) than the amount that can fit in the Boiler.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:37
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
The bigger question is how many balls can fit on a robot?
Enough
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:42
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
The bigger question is how many balls can fit on a robot?
Theoretically the answer is an unlimited amount, since the game pieces can stack up on itself and not count toward the robot height (and assuming physics didnt exist )
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:45
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by aldaeron View Post
It would be nice if FIRST would make a few more field videos showing from the field side and behind the wall what happens if they dump 50 ball into the high and low goal slots.

Since I know Q&A isn't the place to resolve this - does anyone know where such a request could be directed?

Thanks!

-matto-
HEAR HEAR!

I disagree - the q&a is a good official vector for this. too bad it only opens in a few days, after most teams would really like to have finalized their strategy.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 13:55
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by MikLast View Post
Theoretically the answer is an unlimited amount, since the game pieces can stack up on itself and not count toward the robot height (and assuming physics didnt exist )
I wonder what the angle of repose for Fuel is. I imagine it's significantly steeper than the angle of repose for Fuel stored in a robot speeding across the field.

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Originally Posted by Leav View Post
too bad it only opens in a few days, after most teams would really like to have finalized their strategy.
I don't blame them for not opening the Q&A yet. Ignoring the fact that they're humans who probably need some rest, the Q&A would be inundated with basic questions that could be answered by a quick check of the rules and hypothetical questions about specific designs.

Hmm, maybe if somebody wrote a program that could recognize and delete all of those questions before the GDC had to see them, maybe they'd be willing to open up the Q&A earlier.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 14:30
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema View Post
Round 2 of my estimations for the high efficiency boiler goal.

Here is a picture of the cylinder and cone stack pulled directly from the Solidworks field drawing.



I would guess that there is some sort of indexer at the top similar to the bottom feeder, so lets assume that only the cylinder and the cone can hold excess fuel, and the of the innards are used to organize and count fuel.

Boiler Stack Cylinder
Radius: 7.5"
Height: 30"
Volume: 5,301 cubic inches

Boiler Stack Truncated cone
Height: 9"
Upper radius: 10.875"
Lower radius: 7.5"
Volume: 2,413.5 cubic inches

Total Volume: 7714.5 cubic inches

Fuel volume: 65.45 cubic inches

Random close pack of a sphere: ~64%

Total capacity of boiler stack: 75.4 fuel.

The boiler processes fuel in the high efficiency goal at a rate of ~ 5 fuel per second. Which means it would take ~15 seconds to process it all.

Firing 8 fuel a second (A feat I see very few teams accomplishing), a robot would need 25 seconds to fill the high efficiency boiler, firing a total of 200 fuel with 100% accuracy.

The max volume of a robot (34,560 cube in.) would hold 338 fuel, which obviously is not feasible. 200 fuel packed randomly would fill ~ 20,450 cubic inches. This would leave ~ 40% of the total robot volume available for drive train, and shooter.
If you look at field component drawing GE-17371 the boiler stack cylinder is not as long as the provided SolidWorks model. I removed the lower portion of the cylinder at the angle of the top cover and that reduced the boiler stack volume to 5,650 cu. in. which reduces the fuel capacity to about 56.
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Unread 09-01-2017, 14:35
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema View Post
Interesting, I just double checked, the boiler I was measuring doesn't have that hexagonal plate, but the other one does.. I must have missed that. The field walkthrough video's doesn't show that plate at that level though...
The hexagonal plate is a part of the steam tank. If you look at the model of the steam tank it's in there. A duplicate somehow was mistakenly placed in one of boiler assemblies.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 01:19
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

P.34 says "The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD."
Does it means that in any point of time these are the max fuels the boiler can hold?
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Unread 11-01-2017, 09:13
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by eli.beker View Post
P.34 says "The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD."
Does it means that in any point of time these are the max fuels the boiler can hold?
I have a feeling that these are approximations and not exact numbers, but to me yes, that means no more fuel will fit in the boiler if that amount is reached.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 09:20
FalconCHief FalconCHief is offline
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

According to one of our coaches this was in the first update:

The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 10:42
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by eli.beker View Post
P.34 says "The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD."
Does it means that in any point of time these are the max fuels the boiler can hold?
I believe by using the word capacity, they mean the best-case usable volume inside the two goal sections of the boiler without the counters moving.

Essentially dump, cram and shake in as many balls as you can into the unpowered boiler then count the balls. To me it seems unlikely that this process would yield such an even number of balls, so I expect this is a theoretical calculation instead of a physical measurement. My guess is that they rounded down slightly since they put these explicit values in the manual.

-matto-

Last edited by aldaeron : 11-01-2017 at 10:43. Reason: Spelling
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Unread 11-01-2017, 10:46
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

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Originally Posted by FalconCHief View Post
The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD.
I wonder if the 150 high fuel capacity includes fuel inside the pipe. The pipe itself could probably hold around 30-40 balls.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 10:55
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?

 The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High
Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will
fall back on to the FIELD.
coming from team update 1.
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