Q|reflective rope

[Guy D]

Hi guys,
We've been reading the manual a thousand times-
and still have a question about the rope:

Is it legal to coat the climbing rope with reflective coloring?
Is it legal to put a reflective tape on the rope?

the mission of catching the rope near the center of the robot (due to angle changing while climbing) seems a bit challenging,
this could help teams alot to accurately catch the rope.

TY

[Jon Stratis]

These Q&A responses might help answer your questions (seriously, I just went to the Q&A and searched "reflective"):
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/194
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/134
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/51

Please keep in mind that ONLY the Q&A can give you an actual answer. anything you see on Chief Delphi is just speculation and (possibly incorrect) interpretation by people who have access to the exact same information you do.

[Guy D]

So, for summary, I can use any rope who's made of flexible non metalic fibers.
Reflective tape and glass shards wont count,
but if the fibers themselves are made of retro reflective material-the lead robot inspector will choose it's legality?

thank you very much!

[Skyehawk]

There is retro reflective spray that can be purchased, Link here, I would be careful utilizing this though because it does not consist of fibers, etc. and there is a rule prohibiting the deposit of lubricants and other such materials on the field (R09) (a bit of a stretch, but something to consider.) Additionally, for any retro-reflective case, R07-C may also come into play if you are not using this specifically for your use.

Regards,
Skye Leake

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Skyehawk

There is retro reflective spray that can be purchased, Link here, I would be careful utilizing this though because it does not consist of fibers, etc. and there is a rule prohibiting the deposit of lubricants and other such materials on the field (R09) (a bit of a stretch, but something to consider.) Additionally, for any retro-reflective case, R07-C may also come into play if you are not using this specifically for your use.

Regards,
Skye Leake

That looks to be reflective spray, not retroreflective spray. Could just be labeled improperly though.

[Skyehawk]

Originally Posted by Monochron

That looks to be reflective spray, not retroreflective spray. Could just be labeled improperly though.

My bad, that was a quick search to point you in the right direction, not the exact product I was referring to, I should have specified. I know the stuff exists, both a glass-bead and a non-glass-bead variant, there should also be retroreflective fibers/string on the market somewhere...

Example retroreflective Vaient: http://www.volvocars.com/uk/about/hu...ects/lifepaint
And the article: https://www.wired.com/2015/03/lifepa...lective-paint/

My favourite quote from the article:

...will ping off the paint and make anything covered with it look like a glowing blob. It’s easy to see a glowing blob.

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Skyehawk

There is retro reflective spray that can be purchased, Link here, I would be careful utilizing this though because it does not consist of fibers, etc. and there is a rule prohibiting the deposit of lubricants and other such materials on the field (R09) (a bit of a stretch, but something to consider.) Additionally, for any retro-reflective case, R07-C may also come into play if you are not using this specifically for your use.

Regards,
Skye Leake

So you're linking to a purchasable item that isn't legal to use in any case? why?

[Skyehawk]

Originally Posted by engunneer

So you're linking to a purchasable item that isn't legal to use in any case? why?

It was a question, I answered. Lots of discussion on CD is about things that are legal/not legal and not purchasable (although there is info in the article leading to finding a very similar product for purchase in the US). It is good to have well-defined (user) parameters when working on a final design. This info hopefully helps in the long term definition of these parameters.

EDIT:
The simplest solution may be to use a rope with a unique hue (such as hot pink) to track, it probably won't perform quite as well as a retroreflective solution but is the least effort legal way I can think of vision tracking a rope.

[BethMo]

Originally Posted by Skyehawk

My favourite quote from the article:
"...will ping off the paint and make anything covered with it look like a glowing blob. It’s easy to see a glowing blob."

I like this one even better:

...another water-soluble version of the paint called “Horse and Pets” that you can spray right onto horses, dogs, cats, and other critters that keep running into the road—or that you want to invite to your next rave.

[arichman1257]

R07(c): Any devices or decorations specifically intended to jam or interfere
with the remote sensing capabilities of another ROBOT, including
vision systems, acoustic range finders, sonars, infrared proximity
detectors, etc. (e.g. including imagery on your ROBOT that, to a
reasonably astute observer, mimics the retro-reflective features of
vision targets described in Section 3.13 Vision Targets)

Even though this rule is about the robot, I think that its better to be safe than sorry and apply it to the rope to.

[Munchskull]

Originally Posted by arichman1257

R07(c): Any devices or decorations specifically intended to jam or interfere
with the remote sensing capabilities of another ROBOT, including
vision systems, acoustic range finders, sonars, infrared proximity
detectors, etc. (e.g. including imagery on your ROBOT that, to a
reasonably astute observer, mimics the retro-reflective features of
vision targets described in Section 3.13 Vision Targets)

Even though this rule is about the robot, I think that its better to be safe than sorry and apply it to the rope to.

(Bold added by me for emphasis)

This starts down the tricky path of intent. I would argue that the rope could be painted with retro-reflective coating, at least acorrdinget to just this rule. Partly because the rope would not reasonable be within the line of sight of opposing robots while they are trying to take shots.

That said there are many other options for tracking a rope. They do make rope with retro-reflective braids woven in. Additionally bright colored neon rope could serve the exact same purpose.


Obviously I am not an authority figure and you should not take my answer as anything but the possible lawyeringredients of the rules.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by arichman1257

R07(c): Any devices or decorations specifically intended to jam or interfere
with the remote sensing capabilities of another ROBOT, including
vision systems, acoustic range finders, sonars, infrared proximity
detectors, etc. (e.g. including imagery on your ROBOT that, to a
reasonably astute observer, mimics the retro-reflective features of
vision targets described in Section 3.13 Vision Targets)

Even though this rule is about the robot, I think that its better to be safe than sorry and apply it to the rope to.

So which of the field provided vision targets is a vertical, reflective (or retroreflective) 1" wide strip 5' long?. If the answer is "none", then I don't know how you could argue it is intended to interfere with sensing capabilities.