Is Monkeys Fist Legal???

[messer5740]

Just like what the title says, is the monkey's fist knot legal? I understand that many of these knots use a ball to wrap around, but would a "non-metalic, flexible" knot center be legal?

Thanks

[Jon Stratis]

"flexible, non-metallic fibers". You forgot one of those words.

What are you thinking of putting inside the Monkey's Fist? A ball would not generally be a fiber. I have, however, seen Mokey's Fist's created around the knotted end of the rope being used to create the knot (example). That, I believe, would be a legal way to create one.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

"flexible, non-metallic fibers". You forgot one of those words.

What are you thinking of putting inside the Monkey's Fist? A ball would not generally be a fiber. I have, however, seen Mokey's Fist's created around the knotted end of the rope being used to create the knot (example). That, I believe, would be a legal way to create one.

The tough part for an inspector will be to know if a marble (or some other object) was used to start the Monkeys fist, or if they started around another knot.

[Owen Busler]

My team has tied a small monkeys first with 2 more layers on top of it. I agree it will be hard to prove to the inspector bit we can put a pin through it or something of the sorts.

[FRC6055]

You can tie a monkey's fist without anything inside it. It takes time, but it can be done. That is what we are doing for our teams rope for our retention feature.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by FRC6055

You can tie a monkey's fist without anything inside it. It takes time, but it can be done. That is what we are doing for our teams rope for our retention feature.

+1.
If you find that a Monkey Fist with 3 wraps per layer is of insufficient size to act as a stop knot with your rope size, try making it with 4 wraps. It won't be really easy, but it will make a bigger Fist.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by FRC6055

You can tie a monkey's fist without anything inside it. It takes time, but it can be done. That is what we are doing for our teams rope for our retention feature.

A monkey's fist with an empty core will be subject to collapsing, falling through the davit fingers.

I found that with a simple overhand knot as the core, a two-wrap monkeys fist covered it well and kept the shape.

Note that I04 was modified in Team Update 05, so that the knots of the retaining feature may now be up to two inches below the fingers. This allows things like larks heads or bowlines to be used as the retaining feature with small line.

[FRC6055]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

A monkey's fist with an empty core will be subject to collapsing, falling through the davit fingers.

I found that with a simple overhand knot as the core, a two-wrap monkeys fist covered it well and kept the shape.

Note that I04 was modified in Team Update 05, so that the knots of the retaining feature may now be up to two inches below the fingers. This allows things like larks heads or bowlines to be used as the retaining feature with small line.

Like I said, it takes some time to tighten a monkey's fist without a core, but it can be done. Once you get it that tight, with a three wrap knot, it will not collapse. I'm confident it will hold our robot. I'm worlds more confident with this design than putting Velcro on our rope like so many teams are doing. I look forward to seeing numerous 120 lbs robots falling from 4 ft high due to Velcro coming undone.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Note that I04 was modified in Team Update 05, so that the knots of the retaining feature may now be up to two inches below the fingers. This allows things like larks heads or bowlines to be used as the retaining feature with small line.

Somehow I missed that--awesome! Thanks.

[JR0405]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

A monkey's fist with an empty core will be subject to collapsing, falling through the davit fingers.

I found that with a simple overhand knot as the core, a two-wrap monkeys fist covered it well and kept the shape.

Note that I04 was modified in Team Update 05, so that the knots of the retaining feature may now be up to two inches below the fingers. This allows things like larks heads or bowlines to be used as the retaining feature with small line.

Would the loop go around the two Davit fingers

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by JR0405

Would the loop go around the two Davit fingers

It would have to go around one, or have separate loops for each finger. The pin must be able to keep the retaining feature in place. See Q142 for details.

[messer5740]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

It would have to go around one, or have separate loops for each finger. The pin must be able to keep the retaining feature in place. See Q142 for details.

Pics? I still have no idea where you are referring to? The metal channel?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

A monkey's fist with an empty core will be subject to collapsing, falling through the davit fingers.

A fully tightened monkey's fist will hold shape without a core. Here is a three strand example, using 3/8" diameter braided nylon cord. Fist diameter is about 2.3 inch.

[Samueldobens]

Depending on the size of the knot threading the rope it through the davit could be difficult.

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...postid=1631586

From the picture in this thread you can see what the knot will have to fit through.

So yes it is legal but people could run into problems if it is more than an inch wide.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Samueldobens

Depending on the size of the knot threading the rope it through the davit could be difficult.

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...postid=1631586

From the picture in this thread you can see what the knot will have to fit through.

So yes it is legal but people could run into problems if it is more than an inch wide.

That is the view of the lower end of the davit. No knots are allowed between the retaining feature and 29 inches down (below the bottom of the davit, I presume) to allow the rope to pass through the davit channel. There is more room up near the fingers for the retaining feature.