Autonomous Period

[Klondike Mike]

[Here's how it works:
Depending on how many variations you need, you have some number of limit switches. One switch for two programs, two for four, and three for eight, etc.
Depending on what program you want to run, you place little blocks in front of the appropriate switches, so that they are always stuck in either the on or off position.
Alternatively, you could just have a small jumper block wired to the RC inputs to do the same thing. [/b][/quote]


Thank You - This is an excellent idea!

[johnscans]

one of our head programmers is insane and i fear that he may try to make it all AI. i fear the outcome- may the big mna in the sky be wathcin over us.

john
team 1019

[Jeff]

Not sure if this has been answered somewhere else, but I've seen the question a few times now: How do you enable autonomous mode? Answers have included settin the team number to 0000, simply set your outputs to neutral, or just don't touch your controls.

As you get your robot running and really want to test out how it will perform in competition, being able to simulate the competition conditions will often reveal hidden problems that you did not anticipate. On the Innovation FIRST web site there is a single page document that shows you how to use the competition port to do three thinigs:

1.) Enable autonomous mode
2.) Enable alternate channel access
3.) Enable/diasble robot controller output (i.e. start/stop a match)

I've provided the URL below. I would encourage teams to make this adapter, and use the enable/disable switch as a safety when you are testing your robot or even just demonstrating it around guests. It is a good idea to always have a "safety officer" with this switch, ready to shut off the robot at any time with the push of a button. The motors and pneumatics you may be using can cause serious injury - keep safety in mond ALL the time.

This adapter is easy to make and you do not need to be fearful of "messing" with the compeittion port. Just BE CAREFUL because incorrect wiring CAN destroy your controller. Have your wiring and all the connector pins checked and double checked before you install it. Use shrink wrap around the solder connections to insulate the connections and prevent accedental short circuits.

Making and using this adapter will not only allow you to simulate actual competition situations, but will also help you operate and test your robot more safely.

Competition Port Instructions

Jeff

[Norm M.]

Is it just me, or does it seem like it would make sense for IF to sell these already made up with a little PC board and a couple switches...

I hate soldering wires to those little solder cups, and then trying to stuff everything inside a backshell.

Now, of course, the lead time becomes an issue.

[Quentinfool]

A few people on my team and myself have come to the conclusion that the game can be won or lost just as much in the first 15 seconds as in the last 15 seconds. i.e. someone uses autonomous mode to go to the center, pick up all the boxes and dump on their side. there's a hammond strategy if i ever heard one.

[MacZealot]

lol, yeah, anything can happen at any time. A good driver and a good auto script is a combination meant to kill

[dlavery]

Originally posted by Quentinfool
A few people on my team and myself have come to the conclusion that the game can be won or lost just as much in the first 15 seconds as in the last 15 seconds. i.e. someone uses autonomous mode to go to the center, pick up all the boxes and dump on their side. there's a hammond strategy if i ever heard one.

and there at least two quick counter-tactics to use against any robot utilizing this approach.

# 1 - get to the top of the ramp faster than they do, and knock the containers to YOUR side of the ramp (i.e. make it a race!)

# 2 - at the start of the autonomous period, your robot goes under the bar and bumps them from behind, knocking them off the line and futzing with their line/path following capability.

No strategy is foolproof, and all of them can be countered if you are creative enough. The hard part will be choosing which one to use during any given game!

-dave

[MacZealot]

My idea goes like this:

Have the robot in it's start position where it's facing the pole, and have it go under (or over), and knock the opponent bot outta line.

Then you go into full reverse as far back as needed, and hit the ramp at high speed + knock down the stack onto your side

[JLambert]

Originally posted by Cory
has anyone noticed how choppy those lego line readers are? Ive watched them, and I saw about three inch jumps from either side of the line. I dont know if this is an issue with our sensors as I know nothing about them. Did anyone think of placing multiple bins along the lip on the ramp. When robots started going towards the ramp in autonomous mode, more likely than not they would hit these, and they could get caught on the lip, making it impossibleto move by. If nothing else, I'd imagine this would really confuse the bot.


Cory

The Lego bots are jumpy because their sensors are so close together. If the sensors are placed a bit more apart, and it will be smoother. However, If they are placed too far apart, it could be a little TOO smooth.

[EvilInside]

I, in contrary belief to many of you, do NOT think that the game will be won or lost in the first 15 seconds. Considering line-following is easily disrupted, and dead-reckoning is evil, there is just a little too much of a chance something will NOT go as planned. Now, I'm more of an engineering student on Optimus Prime, but I have gone far enough into programming to know a bit about it. Different factors come into play when programming dead-reckoning, such as the charge of the battery, random obstacles, etc. When it comes to line-following, no matter how far apart your sensors are the turning will always be choppy, purely because of how the sensors work. Unlike last year's game, this game has no definate way of controlling it. Since we didn't go to Nats last year (the first year I was on the team) I didn't get to see anything outside our Regionals. Team 71 was able to control the game by grabbing all three goals, and that was it. Unfortunately, this year we can't just grab all the goals and walk into the scoring zone. There is always controlling the ramp, but there are several problems with that.
a) It leaves your alliance partner in a 2 on 1 scenario, which is never a good thing
b) You only score 25 points, with the other goal being to prevent the other team form getting up to 50 points, therefore limiting your own QP
c) Whether you are any use at all is dependant on the first 15 seconds where you have zero control over your 'bot, and therefore cannot react to dynamic situations

NTM several other problems. Of course, I know what I think the best way to go is, but I'm not sharing at least not now.

[Quentinfool]

so you're saying that a robot CAN'T grab all the boxes and win?
hmm, very interesting. i wouldnt be suprised in 71 pulled something like that. never say u cant do something.

[Jeremy L]

regardless of whether a game can or cannot be won in the autonomous mode, it only takes one robot, intentionally or otherwise, to knock into the middle and alter the tide for the remainder of the match. i personally believe that some games will be won by chance or luck, i.e. a robot that hasn't been following a line all of a sudden does, and then strategy will be messed up for that alliance. of course, there are ways of making sure that a robot can't even get onto the ramp, such as placing the human player bins right at the bottom. considering the lips both at the top and bottom of the ramp, i think that most robots would have a pretty difficult time getting all the way to the top to knock the stacks over (without damaging the human player bins severely !!)
it is therefore my belief that the game can be won in the human player mode. given the above situation as well as the general lack of very accurate dead-reckoning systems (in general) and the general lack of speed in line-tracker systems, i think that some very effective human player strategies are out there. i haven't thought about it that much, but i'm sure that there are very reasonable methods of preventing all robot types from being effective in the autonomous mode. for example, if a robot was designed to knock down human stacks, you could put a bin right in front of it and it would push it straight into the wall. for a loss of one bin, this is a good strategy that could save you some points later. ) this, of course, all depends on accurate scouting, which will be a big problem in this game considering the possibility of multiple autonomous modes.) well, there's my three cents worth...

[Quentinfool]

Almost all depends on your programmers. Our team has a programmer that can program ANYTHING(so he claims). He sure as heck better.

[Quentinfool]

No strategy is foolproof, and all of them can be countered if you are creative enough. The hard part will be choosing which one to use during any given game!

yeah but not any robot can counter any strategy. every robot has its own limits but if no one has the ability to exploit these limits, thats how the strategy can be close enough to foolproof.