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Unread 05-19-2017, 12:00 PM
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CSA Horror Stories

I've seen a thread for inspector horror stories, but not one for CSAs. I'm looking for either the weirdest things you've found that passed inspection* or the weirdest wiring/coding techniques. Basically, what have you found that's made you stop and say "whaaaaaat".

* Nothing against inspectors. I know they are all trying their hardest, but no one is perfect.



I'll start this off with the weirdest thing I've seen, this illegal radio modification (on a robot that passed inspection).
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Unread 05-19-2017, 12:08 PM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Last offseason I had a team that would unplug their driver station any time their radio rebooted. Super frustrating to see them lose coms, then unplug their DS, then see the radio come back up on the field monitor and then them not able or willing to plug it back in and keep playing.

I had another team that as we were troubleshooting electrical issues and tracing wires we came across literal bugs, inside their robot, crawling on the pneumatic tubing.

These are just a few I've seen in my relatively short career as a FTAA/CSA. Can't wait to see some crazier stuff as I start doing more events!
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Unread 05-19-2017, 03:15 PM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

I have so many of these.

2017:
A team put nylon washers below the ring terminal on the 6ga side of the PDP. The screw wasn't even tight, the cover was holding it down. The washers were filed down to fit in the PDP's groves.

I saw a CAN bus terminated in the 12v 2A VRM.

A team tried to use an 85A main breaker.

I met a team back at their pit since they were bypassed in a match. FMS saw their radio but not their rio, and the rio had link lights and chatter on the ethernet port. Powered up in their pit and replicated the problem (how rare!). Couldn't make any headway through the ethernet port, although the rio MAC showed up in the laptop's ARP table. All in parallel we started imaging another rio and getting the JRE on it since I wasn't sure if we could get this rio to work. We plugged into the USB port and we got comms etc. I had 1 laptop plug into the USB port, and another plug into the ethernet port. When we would load 172.22.11.2 and go to network settings the ethernet device just wasn't there. SSH'd in from the USB and did a dmesg|tail. Saw a bunch of errors where the ethernet driver was failing to load. Opened it up to check for swarf, and found none. I called up HQ, relayed this info, and they replied "Yup they need to send that back to NI."

2016:
This team had a programming issue for a few events. Sometimes their code would just not run. It would say its connected, but no joysticks or any motor output would work. Sometimes only 1 stick would work. Early in the season we did some change that improved it, but sometimes the problem would still crop up. At the event before district championship, I was looking at their code, and Brad Miller stopped by. Neither of us found the smoking gun, but we knew it was the code. A default codebase worked fine. After the event, I took a copy of their code and ran it on FRCSIM. I knew I'd see them at Lehigh and it was bothering me that I couldn't solve it. After running like 500 simulations I found out that they were re initializing the HAL. It turned out that they had a class inherit Simplerobot (or one of hte other robot bases). They had multiple instances of this class, and it would be a race condition to see which one actually took the HAL. They were ecstatic when I told them at Lehigh I found the root cause.

2015:
A team was having some issue after their robot ran for some amount of time. I forget if it would hang, watchdog, or throw an out of memory error. It turned out they implemented command based where pressing any button would spawn a new thread. When the command completed they did not remove the thread, so eventually the rio had tens of thousands of zombie threads.

A team said their battery voltage drops tremendously when driving straight while on blocks. I figured it would be a mechanical bind. Sure enough, they drove forward and I heard the clicking of the 40A breakers tripping. In their gearboxes, the motors were fighting each other.

I had a team casually ask me how to get a rio out of safe mode. I laughed and headed over to their robot. Required a complete reimage. While in queue. Oh and they were java so they needed the JRE.

2014:
A team asked for my help since their robot wasn't driving straight. Seems pretty innocuous, plenty of possibilities. They had a 2 cim gearbox for each side of their drivetrain. One cim had the positive lead pull out of the crimp so it were just dangling. UNFORTUNATELY when the robot was driving, the lead would rub against the cRio. Since the motor was being driven it was producing voltage. End result was arc marks on the cRio. It still worked flawlessly.

I found it hilarious that the loan only stickers covered the PCM status lights.

A team had multiple radio drop outs, but each drop out was under a second. Couldn't find anything wrong with their robot, so on their next match I ran a passive packet sniffer to observe their radio. There was something like 40% retransmitted packets and the link rate was low. I think the internal antenna was damaged but I'll never know. We swapped the radio and it worked fine.

2013:
I was called to the field since a robot after the match ended, was still driving while climbed. It turned out there was metal swarf shorting out the signal pin on the victor's PWN pins. I think this was somehow making it drive. After vacuuming it out, it worked properly.
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Unread 05-19-2017, 05:43 PM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

A team had communication problems on field and while helping them I noticed they swapped the roboRIO and vrm output terminals on the pdp (leaving the roboRIO with a 20A fuse and the vrm with 10A).

Another team which works with labVIEW, written a new autonomous routine between their first and second event. They had their robot die for autonomous period every time they tried it on the field. In their pit they were running the code on the computer in debug mode, but the problem occurred only when the code was deployed to the roboRIO. It turned out that the new autonomous VI was never made it to the final build which was deployed to the roboRIO, so that made the autonomous routine crash every time and the code had to be restarted while leaving the robot dead for autonomous period.
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Unread 05-21-2017, 07:43 PM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

These were all this year

Event A
Earlier in the season one of the FTAs told me that they saw that there was a power fault* on this teams roboRIO. I don't know if he saw it on that app the FTAs have* or if he just saw it with his eyes but that's not the point. So I go back to this teams pit and I'm looking for the cause and it turns out that they were intentionally shorting the power and ground of a DIO pin every match as an autonomous selection jumper.

Event B
I was not a CSA at this event because I was my team's drive coach this season. But I have a tendency to help out other teams with CS stuff anyway. There was this one team that was having some electrical issues and one of the first things we noticed was that they tried to use 10-24 bolts in the 5mm inserts for the PDP power. The threads were completely ruined so neither a 5mm or 10-24 bolt would thread in properly and it was very loose. The next thing that happened was they told me that they had some component arcing to the frame. I was incredulous at first but then they showed me video of it happening.

Event C
A team was using ferrules with a ferrule crimper that did not make them square. It just flattened them.

At our shop
Some CS newbies were wiring up a chassis for practice. They were using Victor 888s because they were lying around and forgot to plug in one of the fan wires. In their defense, it was only a small fire, no one got hurt, it went out when they killed the power, and because of the previous things it was kinda funny.

*For the non-CS people, a power fault on the roboRIO is when there is a short circuit on some of the pins of the rio it self or a plugged in peripheral device. Indicated by a red power light on the rio.
**I don't know too much about whats on that app but I'm certainly curious to learn
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Unread 05-21-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by arichman1257 View Post
Event C
A team was using ferrules with a ferrule crimper that did not make them square. It just flattened them.
Interestingly, I would've been surprised to see square crimped ferrules before having read your post and a quick google search. The only ferrules I have ever seen and worked with have been crimped flat.

Do you think one or the other is preferable? The only place I have seen an issue with flattened ferrule connectors is where the power wires come into the RoboRIO, where I've found bare stranded wire to be superior. Would a square crimped ferrule perform better in this application? Everywhere else on the robot I have loved flat crimped ferrule connectors as compared to bare wire.
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Unread 05-21-2017, 08:31 PM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92 View Post
Do you think one or the other is preferable? The only place I have seen an issue with flattened ferrule connectors is where the power wires come into the RoboRIO, where I've found bare stranded wire to be superior. Would a square crimped ferrule perform better in this application? Everywhere else on the robot I have loved flat crimped ferrule connectors as compared to bare wire.
The Weidmuller connectors need one of two things to be able to work effectively. A wire with a uniform contact surface (ferrules) or a wire that can be compressed (no ferrules). I have never personally seen ferrules that were crimped flat that were uniform. Also, if they are flat then you have to make sure that your're not putting them in the Weidmuller or screw terminal on an angle. When they're square the flat faces will be forced to be parallel to the contact surface inside the connector by the compression force. But the biggest problem I have with flat ferrule connections is that they don't really fit inside of the terminals.

Beyond that, the guy who I talked to from Automation Direct at champs said the following: "Make sure that your ferrules are crimped square" and "No Weidmuller in industry is used without a ferrule"
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Unread 05-22-2017, 08:57 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by arichman1257 View Post
...Beyond that, the guy who I talked to from Automation Direct at champs said the following: "Make sure that your ferrules are crimped square" and "No Weidmuller in industry is used without a ferrule"
You need to look at what to terminal is listed for. Most of the spring contact terminals like the ones on the VRM are listed for stranded and solid wire with or without ferules. While ferules are good practice, a really high percentage (most?) of industrial field connections are made without them. If you used ferrules they need to be properly crimped with the ferrule sized for the wire. That really is more important than the final shape of the crimp. Bottom line: Have ferrules sized for the wire and use a decent crimper sized for the ferrule. Hint ferrule crimpers use different dies than terminal/connectors.
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Unread 05-22-2017, 09:35 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

On a previous team, I used This ferrule set.

Worked great.
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Unread 05-23-2017, 09:00 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by arichman1257 View Post
At our shop...it was only a small fire...
If I used those words in any sentence with my department head he would be pulling out his nitroglycerin and eating the entire bottle.
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Unread 05-23-2017, 09:10 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsegrest View Post
If I used those words in any sentence with my department head he would be pulling out his nitroglycerin and eating the entire bottle.
Better keep that nitroglycerin away from that fire


I'll also open this up to FTAs and FTAAs if you've seen some crazy stuff I'd love to hear about it.
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Unread 05-23-2017, 10:29 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsegrest View Post
If I used those words in any sentence with my department head he would be pulling out his nitroglycerin and eating the entire bottle.
I once had a small blow back when liquid propane puddled in the fire box of our propane/air mixer. My maintenance supervisor didn't understand the fire would go out when the propane burned off, and sort of freaked. He made made more mess with the fire extinguisher than the propane did. He got to clean it up. It is all relative.
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Unread 05-23-2017, 10:47 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

A top tier team attempted to solder their radio wires into the VRM.

A team spent the weekend frustrated by motor issues... because they never terminated their CAN.
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Unread 05-23-2017, 11:14 AM
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Re: CSA Horror Stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by piersklein View Post
A top tier team attempted to solder their radio wires into the VRM.

A team spent the weekend frustrated by motor issues... because they never terminated their CAN.
I think I know who this was directed at
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Unread 05-23-2017, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piersklein View Post
A top tier team attempted to solder their radio wires into the VRM.



A team spent the weekend frustrated by motor issues... because they never terminated their CAN.

PLEASE tell me someone took photos of the first one.
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