Mad Dash for the Controls?

[Ashley Weed]

Although I don't see it causing a big problem overall, I do see this causing un-needed confusion and or tasks to complete. I think it will take significant portions of the matches away, and the majority will be without 10 seconds or so of getting to the controls.

.. as I understand it... at the end of the autonomous time, all floor team members will then enter the player sataion? ... glad we have a fast base driver

[RoboCoder]

The rule is under section 7.1 which is initial setup, as for the human player period and the autonomous period, the players and coach arent limited other than they must stay in the control station. I interpret that as during the setup, you must stand 3' back from the controls, but during the 25 seconds of the competition before the controlled part kicks in, you can move up 3' to the controls. I could be wrong, but this sounds like what they mean.

[Madison]

Originally posted by RoboCoder
The rule is under section 7.1 which is initial setup, as for the human player period and the autonomous period, the players and coach arent limited other than they must stay in the control station. I interpret that as during the setup, you must stand 3' back from the controls, but during the 25 seconds of the competition before the controlled part kicks in, you can move up 3' to the controls. I could be wrong, but this sounds like what they mean.

Please read the quote I've provided, given as an official answer on FIRST's message boards. It directly contradicts your interpretation.

Heh, I have taken my own interpretation to rules before they were officially posted and found out that they were basically what I said, so lets try it again.

IF operators must be 3' away during the first 25 seconds, they should be allowed to move into position of joysticks within the last 5 seconds before control to the humans begin.

This is my guess of how FIRST will clarify it. It is NOT official

[Timinator]

I think the key thing to remember here is how small 3 feet is. It can easily be crossed, quickly in 1 step. I've had to march 5 yards in 4 steps and that starts to get a little hard, but it won't be a problem.

[Patrick Wang]

Like said before, 3 feet is not a "tripping" distance.

I can almost reach 3 feet with just the length of my arms.

However, it still becomes a problem to be reseolved for teams wishing to "wear" their control system.

Originally posted by Patrick Wang
Like said before, 3 feet is not a "tripping" distance.

I can almost reach 3 feet with just the length of my arms.

However, it still becomes a problem to be reseolved for teams wishing to "wear" their control system.

6 inches could be tripping distance. If you have a clumsy person who frequently trips over their feet (not me) they could fall.

[evulish]

I've had my leg give out when standing still. I doubt that 3' should be much of a problem. Take one GIANT step forward. *Thinks back to kindergarton*

[Joe Johnson]

It seems that obvious autonomy is the reason that FIRST is proposing this new rule.

I don't like it personally.

There are 2 main reasons.

#1, it is a lot of bother for little benefit. This is going to require that the refs watch one more thing and give penalties if it is violated. Excited drivers (and coaches) do a lot of silly things, I think this is just going to cause headaches for all concerned. And for what? To ensure that the audience is clear that the robot is driving on its own? This seems to be overkill.

#2, FIRST has always liked "wearable" Operator Interfaces. I think I have seen them award 10 or 12 prizes to teams just on the basis of such operator interfaces. This rule, while not specifically forbidding them, makes this type of Operator Interface much more difficult to implement. Again, for what benefit?

I don't see the need for this rule and I hope it is reversed.

Joe J.

P.S. it is possible that FIRST can not figure out a good way to prevent Operators from sending information to their robots in the human player time and this is a work around for that.

Note that disabled robots are just that, disabled. The RC knows what the OI joysticks and switches are doing, it is just that the RC cannot turn on any motors -- if a robot is merely disabled during the human player time, the drivers could send information to the robot that it could use during the autonomous time -- for example, go get the stacks at position XXX, YYY. Just a thought...

[Solace]

hey, how do you change your description (the little phrase below your name and above your avatar)? do you have to be a moderator or something? or just have a lot of posts?

[evulish]

Wouldn't it be possible to make extension cables for the ports on the OI? Just let them dangle in the air. I don't know if this would be legal or not...I'm guessing no...

[Ian W.]

as i said before, 3 feet is not a problem for me personally. the reason i dislike this rule is because it is very unfair for a member of my team.

she's handicapped, and won't be able to jump 3 feet in a couple of milliseconds like the rest of us. sure, she can move fast if she needs, but it's unfairly stressing her. for that reason alone, this rule should be thrown out the window completely. it's just the way i feel about it. sure, she might not drive at all, but i'd like her to drive at least one match, and that's more than enough reason for this rule to be removed. listen up FIRST, we're not thrilled with this rule, either make it more friendly (as in, coach/human player must remain behind line during game) or get rid of it completely.

[illumanat'i]

i might be wrong, but long cords that could get caught on stuff isn't directly outlawed, but probably would be frowned upon... it would be a good idea if you could attach the cords to a spring so if you let go it slips back into the control board or something
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the custom words under peoples names is a reward for lots and lots of posts, 50 = senior member and some super high number gets you a custom name.... mods get moderator tags (obviously)

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the rule need clarification, because it has two perfectly good explainations, both with their own problems and what not....

first everyone not stacking boxes (one person stacking means 3 people per team not stacking) has to start off away from the controls - problems: why? because its photogenic, so the stackers don't get distracted? pretty much useless....

second prove that players aren't "aiding" their robot's during the auto-mode . . . again, why? they can't figure out how to get the robots to run on their own without the human interface broadcasting? that could be a problem, but like Joe said, the refs just get one more thing to watch, and instead they could add a mandatory code to people programs that disables input until given the right signal from the big clock computers....

i'm sure they will update this soon, so the best idea is to stop worring before someone gets hyperactive or goes into shock from all of the alarmist theories

[HolyMasamune]

I don't see being 3 feet away as much of a problem because
a) take one step and you're there
b) you'll probably take 0.2 seconds longer if you're slow
c) most of the game is decided in the last 15-30 seconds (you can feel a big difference in the driver's place when time is running out)
d) if you think of this as a hazard, what about the teams that are trying to run their robot out because they're late
e) even if you are at the driver's place, slower reaction to them saying "go" will take longer than for people to take one step.

[sevisehda]

I see a number of solutions that would fit whatever FIRST eventually clarifies this rule to be.

A: It says you have to be behind the 3' line so just build a shelf
for your controls and C-clamp them to the shelf they have.
B: Program your autonomous mode to run for 20ish seconds or
until it starts getting data from your controls. This would also
help your robot from doing nothing in the event your drivers
are a little slow. Also everyone is familiar with FIRST
tolerences so 15 seconds could be a little shorter or longer
than expected.
C: Get a driver with 3ft arms, chances are he'd be tall enough to
see over the ramp as well.