Space Shuttle Tragedy--Team tribute (please read)

[PsiMatt]

Originally posted by FAKrogoth
I know I seem (and probably am) fairly insensitive, I have a point to make. Can someone please explain Why a death is more important than a life? A failed mission more than a success?


Why do we mourn a tragedy more than we celebrate a job well done?

There has been more to NASA than just spectacular failure. Should we not celebrate the crews of spectacular successes just as much as the people who ended up on the wrong side of probability?

The people who have died on the Columbia were not mere victims of probability, they were people who gave their lives for the eventual embetterment of the human race. The truth is, though we often triumph, we seldom know defeat, and it is this tragedy, this loss that we mourn because it falls out of the reach of our sense of reality.

FAKrogoth, are you condemning all those who mourn their loved ones? Are you condemning the mounrning of death, and loss? Are you such a cold, insensitive human being that you will show such utter disrespect to those who gave the ultimate sacrafice? The world isn't entirely about efficency and the ends justify the means, otherwise, Machiavellian thought would reign supreme and organizations such as first would not exist. The only reason that you are able to be part of an organization like this, that you are able to post your views here at all is because people believe in making a diffrence, that not everything is about success, but in the attempt, and in the spirit of honor.

I'll stop myself before I go completely out of control, but my point is that the deaths of these astronauts meant something, and were not only a blow to the families and friends of those who died on the Columbia, but to the entire scientific community, and the world. If you have negative thoughts, please, refrain from disrespecting those who have died by saying that this tragedy was the equivalent of a minivan crash. If you had lost someone, or believed in the great human dream of space, you would understand. You obviously don't. As for your thoughts, keep them to yourself

[Teedoff101]

Ok, I have something that is kind of strange. The shuttle dissintigrated above central Texas and some of the debris landed in a town named Palestine. Is this an omen of some sort? Just a thought...

[SouthBronx]

ok, think about this..... the shuttle came from space, amaizing height!, and when the shuttle is comming down to earth, it goes to a speed of 26 times the speed of sound, think about that for a sec......


PS: the image i did is done but i need something to upload it with.... what server can I use to upload images?

[LBK Rules]

Originally posted by SouthBronx
PS: the image i did is done but i need something to upload it with.... what server can I use to upload images?

ChiefDelphi.com

[Gadget470]

Either use the "attach file" below where you type posts or more preferably use the "Gallery" (link located top right of every page) to upload pictures. Put it into 2003 -> Misc.

[FAKrogoth]

Will someone please just answer one question: why are people who die more important than those who don't?

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by Mimi Brown
[b]In wake of this terrible tragedy happening as we speak, I feel like there is somthing that we, as a large science community, should do.

Turns out one of the astronauts was a at a FIRST competition

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[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally posted by FAKrogoth
Will someone please just answer one question: why are people who die more important than those who don't?

The point is not that they are more important. The point is that it is tragic when people die. When they die doing something that is important, like space flight, or altruistic, like missionary work, or for the greater good in any way, we celebrate their life and their sacrifice. We don't point out ways that their mission was less sucessful or important than others, and we show them and their families due respect.

[wheeler]

I think that this is a wonderful way to show that are hearts are with the families and the NASA community[IMG]sts-107-patchribbonfin[/IMG]

[Cheese Head]

Originally posted by FAKrogoth
Will someone please just answer one question: why are people who die more important than those who don't?

Well FAKrogoth does make a point. I mean space flights have not nearly or practically, have become routine. The American people have forgotten how great and special a thing space flight is. And we are placing more media coverage because such an event greatly disrupt the status quo more than a successful landing.
We should definitely do something to show support, I expect it. For one thing, this is the most science involved club I've ever been involved with. Plus everyone should show support for the friends and family of the crew. And NASA is one of our sponsors (I think, correct me if I'm wrong).

[Melissa Nute]

Originally posted by Cheese Head
And NASA is one of our sponsors (I think, correct me if I'm wrong).

They used to be....like before I joined the club three years ago...but alas they are no longer
(Our only main sponsers are JEA and Vistakon)

[MRL180YTL2002]

Originally posted by Redhead Jokes
Turns out one of the astronauts was a at a FIRST competition

Yeah, Dave Brown. I met the man at KSC while me and Bill COx were representing S.P.A.M. waiting to be interview by NASA. Nice guy...the thing is we're talking with a few guys from 179 and I think 343 and 312 who happened to be passing through -the RR are in that building- about the space shuttle at the moment (and what would happen if all computers failed upon landing....like right before touchdown...well maybe at 25,000 feet)...he walks into the building hearing our conversation and is like you should be able to and it but I wouldn't want to find out.

[FAKrogoth]

To Specialagentjim: Do you realize that the people on the Columbia were not rushing to finish the experiments before they died, they were following the mission criteria. Whether or not the Shuttle was damaged, they would have performed the same. STS-107, except for the last few minutes, was a routine science mission. If you want to celebrate NASA's achievements, pick a mission with some distinction other than morbidity.

To various people: *THEY DIDN'T "BRAVELY SACRIFICE" THEIR LIVES!!!* The crew took the same risks as every other shuttle crew. There was no such tragedy where they were destined to die, and they worked to their last breaths trying to fulfill as much of the experiments as possible. I don't mean to say the deaths weren't "sad" or "tragic," but sh*t happens. Lament, don't mourn.

To those few who were outraged by my "minivan" correlation: How are these two events not similar? A minivan could have seven people in it. The shuttle had seven people in it. One uses the 'van to get home from work. The Columbia was used to get back from orbit to Earth. People generally aren't doing anything important on the freeway. STS-107 had already completed all the objectives. However, the Space Shuttle does cost $140 million. It was also chauffered by an inanimate object, and was flying "in the name of Science" which does not necessarily have anything to do with space flight. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that money, and a misguided view of science as a whole, makes a death significant. If you don't believe me, think back to Princess Di.

To everyone: How is this a "blow to the entire scientific community?" Apparently, I was not aware that probability does not exist when humans are involved. Believe me, science as a whole will not curl up and die, just because seven people lost their lives. (There are a LOT more scientists out there) Did anyone think about how this might spur the development of other, cheaper, more reliable lifting devices? SSTO, baby!

To everyone (again): What is this "Due respect?" How do I get it? It seems to me like martyrdom is the easiest way.
. . .
Particularly when it's expensive.

And finally, to all people who can't think about tragedy without using their heart, which ironically is not the center of emotion, nor does it have anything to do with hormone production,, and thus won't say anything "thoughtful":

[BBFIRSTCHICK]

OK people...this is getting way way out of hand!! Some of you sound like 2 year olds fighting back and forth! If you want to go at each other PM one another or something, but leave it of the bored...Everyone has their own opinions and they should be respected. This thread is about a "team tribute: to the crew of STS 107. Can we try not fighting about who
a: thinks they are heroes,
b: are nothing diff from anyone that has died with AIDS
c: Was just like any other normal NASA mission,
d: was doing every day normal science experiments. ect!!!!

Its just ridiculous to see the way some things can be taken out of proportion!

[DanL]

Originally posted by FAKrogoth
To everyone: How is this a "blow to the entire scientific community?" Apparently, I was not aware that probability does not exist when humans are involved. Believe me, science as a whole will not curl up and die, just because seven people lost their lives. (There are a LOT more scientists out there) Did anyone think about how this might spur the development of other, cheaper, more reliable lifting devices? SSTO, baby!

Dood, how about you think before you open your mouth in the future.

First and foremost, especially on a FIRST messageboard, disrespectful is a mild word for what you're doing right now.

The space shuttle is one of the pinnacles of human achievement at this age. We've been all over the world (except possibly the depths of the oceans). The one place where we as a race have not been is Space. The Universe is so large is defies comprehension. For every star that is visible (even on a clear night in the middle of the countryside), there are thousands, if not millions, of stars which are hidden. We are just taking baby steps into that world.

The Colombia tragedy isn't only about the lives lost. The space shuttle program represents the culmination of the most advanced space travel technology in existence today (even the Russian Soyuz crafts are nowhere as reusable as the space shuttle). It also represents the culmination of countless manhours and cooperation between humans - it's just a taste of what can happen if we try. The tragedy comes from the fact that all of these achievements have been just shown to be imperfect.

The Colombia disaster isn't only about the human deaths. It's about the psychological impacts. With your AIDs argument - yeah, people die of AIDs every day, but how many of those people represent the future of humanity, the future of exploration, the culmination of some of the most advanced technology available, and an example of what the human race is capable of if we just work together. How many people who die die representing those virtues?

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However, if you don't care about the human race and just want a specific example of how this is a "blow to the entire scientific community," look no further than the IIS.

Currently, there are only two crafts capable of transporting humans to the International Space Station: the Russian Soyuz crafts (which aren't too reusable), and the American Space Shuttles. The Russians are in financial trouble and have implied they would be forced to withdraw from the IIS program if they can't secure funds to continue the production of their Soyez vehicles. That has put a lot of the responsibility of continuing the IIS program in American hands. When the Challenger blew up, the entire Space Shuttle fleet was grounded for over two years until the cause was determined and upgrades were made. If the Space Shuttle fleet becomes grounded now, what happens to the IIS?

You mentioned the SSTO and implicitly hinted to the Lockheed Martin X-10 (exact letters?). Honestly - how long does it take to fully design and construct a completely new, working spacecraft. You're not going to see a mission-ready model for at least five, six years - it'll probably be close to a decade. What happens to the IIS in that timeframe?

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FAKrogoth, if you want to continue this, pm me or AIM me (PhyrosFire) - I'd be glad to debate this further - but please, just keep your opinions out of the wrong threads before you make them locked. Sometimes people need to express their sadness. You must respect that if you want people to treat you with respect.