Animation Winners at Nats

[xavior06]

i would like to see animators unite to create a union that could present a proposal to FIRST and Autodesk...

i think they were discussing something like this before, maybe we could assemble our own panel of judges or self judge animations such as at regionals. (when a team wins a regional they should automatically be taken out of the running for any other submitted regionals)

i duno.. i just feel really disapointed this year (my second year doing animation)

i agree there isnt much we can do about this year, i hope that we could unite to make next year more enjoyable.

l8r

[xavior06]

ps- awesome job to everyone this year

[Efalunt]

Originally posted by xavior06

i think they were discussing something like this before, maybe we could assemble our own panel of judges or self judge animations such as at regionals. (when a team wins a regional they should automatically be taken out of the running for any other submitted regionals)

Well, when they had the "self-judging" aspect at regionals, many people complained about the lack of experience many of the student judges had (hope no one complained about me ^_^). This also led to some "cool" but content-weak animations doing well... but I liked it and hope they continue with it, but just for regionals, maybe with a screening process for student judges. Nationals should stick with the pros.

As for taking regional winners out of other regionals, you would end up with 15 or so different animations per conference advancing... I very much doubt there were 15 good animations per conference which means the whole purpose of regionals "weeding out" the good from the not so good is lost

[amyblink8604]

I was not a member of our Animation team but I saw first hand how hard our two kids worked on it. They both learned it on their own and they had no help. They literally spent hours there working on it and I did not think the team that won deserved to win because of the lack of Animation that was involved. I think next year the judge's should look more at the content of the animation. Our animation was a complete 30 second animation with a clear message of the meaning of FIRST to us and I think that's what the whole competion was about. Don't get me wrong, everyone did a great job on there's but I think we need to look more at the principles of the animation and not just 10 seconds of animation and the rest video clips. Congratulations to all teams deserving of their awards!

[Chris Nowak]

Even if you took into account that the majority of the competition was based off of content and creativity, I'm still not satisfied. In my opinion, Team 75 did a much better job at explaining their aspect of first, and their animation had soooo much style. It might not have had the best Technical Execution, but neither did 967....

Also, how the heck did 192(I think its 192, the one with the crayons) lose to 967? I really dont get this...they had a very good message, it was creative, and for tech execution it must have gotten near a 20! Now it couldnt be too far behind 967 in content and creative, but it must have massacred 967 in technical execution!

I really think that many teams this year DID neglect the content communication and creativity aspect. I know we did. The Flash text across our animation was pretty much an afterthought.

I think one of the major problems with the judging here is the points for creativity. I mean, its sooooo subjective. To rate animations on a scale for creativity is almost impossible, cuz its just not defined very well in the criteria. Autodesk really needs to clearly communicate our objectives for this award. In my opinion, a movie trailer is creative, but not the most creative presentation in the world. I also think that the talking guy on a white screen in 75's animation is incredibly creative. However, its obvious the judges have different opinions.

What kind of creative do they want? Do they want something which is professional and subdued(kind of like last years) or something with a more interesting twist(like the movie trailer). My point is, there are very different levels of creativity, but these levels are not necessarily better than each other! When working for a business, it should be obvious what kind of animation you are going for, because you know your target audience and you know what kind of style they would like to see for your particular product. In this case, we have no clue what our audience is, except for the fact that they work for autodesk. Its easy to win a regional animation, because we hang out with our target audience. However, its near impossible to understand what the judges will think of an animation that is a little unproffessional. Will they shrug it off and say "ahhh, its made by kids, whatever" or will they say "its not professional enough, 20 pts off".

Basically, my entire rant can be summarized in my opinion that autodesk does not clearly communicate our objectives.

[jpren]

Thanks for all the compliments. Our animators, like many other teams, really put a lot of thought into the communication of our message.

As an Inventor designer, I also feel the lack of recognition for Animators and Inventor designers in FIRST. In the upcoming months, team 75 will be launching an online community for FIRST animators and inventor designers to promote, recognize and award exceptional animations/renders. Works wil be judged by both your peer animators/inventor designers as well as (hopefully) a panel of professionals. The lack of recognition for many animations at regionals and at championships is alarming; we need to encourage and reward all the animators and inventor designers whose work was left unnoticed. Besides giving out awards, we also plan to provide better ways to showcase these animations through television networks as well as securing an area of the pits at every regional to set up viewing booths (yes, with quality sound and screens) so that anyone can view these little animated wonders.

As Xavior mentioned, we need to start a sub-organization that caters to the needs of Animators and Inventor designers: mostly people who work hours upon hours behind the scenes.

In the upcoming months, I will be working with Autodesk's ADA (Autodesk Design Academy) program and I will lobby Autodesk support for our organization.

If it is impossible for Autodesk to better award/recognize all the great animations and are unwilling to make a greater effort, then I feel that we must be responsible for recognizing eachother and creating our own awards, prizes and ceremonies that we can present at regionals and/or championships. The fact is that most animators are involved in the autodesk animation competition because they truly love animating and wish to become better at it, not just for some autodesk award, but for a reward in the likeness of being "noticed" and complimented upon. What difference would it make for a team to win the "FIRST Animators award for exceptional 3d animation" compared to "Autodesk Visualization Award" if both winners were called down, their animations shown and given nice trophies?

As far as online resources go, the FIRST animators yahoo group has pretty much died off in terms of activity. CD boards are good for resources, but not properly suited for the needs of animators to post, rate eachother's animations and create custom tutorials.

If your team is interested in assisting team 75 in establishing this community, and wish to be involved in shaping the future of this organization, please send an email to:

JP Ren - jpren@rcn.com
Greg Liebowitz - greg@itmediaco.com

[Jessica_166]

Originally posted by RachelOfMars
I haven't quite cooled off regarding this topic yet, so my apologies if I offend anyone by being mean here.

There were only two awards, and I think it was a mistake to get rid of the other three; unless there weren't five good animations, which maybe in Autodesk's opinion there weren't. Quite frankly, I wonder whether Autodesk people or Ted Boardman had anything to do with the judging process.

I'm... um... confused. When they played the winning animation, for awhile I wondered if they were accidentally playing a Chairman's entry instead of a Visualization one; then I tried to convince myself that the people there were 3D models. Nope. Personally, I thought that either the team with the crayon-animation, or team #103, should have won, at least out of the animations I saw on Einstein. There may have been other good ones that I missed, and maybe if you're better at looking past technical gimmicks, other teams did better. But even if technical skill isn't everything, that doesn't mean it should be nothing.

I'm with you. I've done animation for 2 years and this year I tried to do something different. But, I saw a lot of great ANIMATIONS when I watched them on the Einstein field. However, there really wasn't much animation in the winning animation. The little there was I know wasn't terribly difficult to put together either since I've been an animator once.........
Even I was a little shocked. And I was wondering why there were only two winning animations this year because there used to be a ton!

[Jessica_166]

Originally posted by CAD-Demigod45
Autodesk pretty much asked for a commercial. I would definitely say the animation that won was one hell of a commercial.

I remember last year that the way they wanted the animation sent to them was in the format that it could be used like a commercial. Our mentor was constantly saying "sounds like they want a commercial"
Doesn't surprise me too much.

[Jessica_166]

Originally posted by RachelOfMars
You may want to check out last year's submission from team According to Derek (the kid who made virtually () all of that animation), they did NOT use video and animation simultaneously for that clip... on the other hand, the clip clearly does not overpower the animation.

please do not bring up an overly debated fact from last year.
It is not the animation team's fault that Derek was the only one who had his own copy at home. We tried to not let him make the entire thing, but there was only so much I could do. Somehow he kind of usurped my authority .

[Chris Nowak]

Originally posted by Jessica_166

Even I was a little shocked. And I was wondering why there were only two winning animations this year because there used to be a ton!

Autodesk just removed the honorable mentions, probably because they added all the regional awards. IMO Autodesk just balanced it out. We thought that perhaps regional animation signified a new way for them to respect and encourage animators, but it really was balanced by the fact that they eliminated all but 2 of the national awards. IMO we havent really gained anything at all this year. Sure, more teams get recognized, but regionals were so poorly put together most of them didnt even show the winner on the big screen. At least at nats last year everyone got to see the 5 animations that won the honorable mentions, rookie award, and grand prize.

Also, did anyone notice how at regionals they did awards in order of importance(most important last)? We were the second award to be announced, only ahead of the webite award(which got even less attention than animation this year, and probably wasnt big enough to be judged at the regional level IMO).

[Jessica_166]

Thanks Chris Nowak -
I was a little curious about all of that. And your right about the Regional things, out of the two regionals I attended, I only saw 1 animation. You guys do deserve more emphasis.

[TKatsAniMentor]

I think it is unfortunate that this year's "animation" award was a joke. No disrespect to team 967, but I wouldn't necessarily classify your video as an animation. I know that lots has been said about this subject, but I thought it was time for an adult's point of view.

This year's animation award started off with some new screwy developments. Being the Technical Excellence Honorable Mention award winner last year, we had high hopes. When we got the rules in our hands and saw that Autodesk had taken almost a month away to develop our animation. Little did we know, that wasn't the only thing they were going to mess with.

I think it is strange that they are giving less awards at Nationals now. I know that the regional awards adds more recognition to the teams, but is it really a better route? I guess, it could have been if Autodesk had supported it more. Our animation leader went to vote at our first regional (St. Louis) and he said that there was a little room with a tiny TV with the animations on auto-repeat. No one from Autodesk was present. Also, a team didn't even have to be at the regional to win the award. Team 74 (which I have never seen this animation) won several and Gunn Robotics also won a few. I don't really think that is fair. If you have to submit your chairman's award entry to ONLY 1 regional...the same should be for the animation. To top all this off, FIRST didn't even show the winning animations at most regionals.

I heard that someone confronted the man in charge of the animation judging and awards about a week before the first regional. They filled him in on the problems and loopholes in this year's animation rules, but he said that it was too late to change. Hopefully next year, the award will be more recognized and supervised. I'm pretty sure that no one from Autodesk reads these posts, so we need to make the extra effort to save this award. When FIRST has its annual forum, make sure that your team's representative has a list of complaints, comments, etc. to let Autodesk know what you think about their changes this year.

There is great power in numbers.

[Jeff Waegelin]

Originally posted by TKatsAniMentor
I think it is unfortunate that this year's "animation" award was a joke. No disrespect to team 967, but I wouldn't necessarily classify your video as an animation. I know that lots has been said about this subject, but I thought it was time for an adult's point of view.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. The winning entry was an excellent production, but it really wasn't an animation. If Autodesk wants to give an award for the best "visualization", even if it has little animation in it, they should at least keep the Technical Excellence award to reward those teams who put a lot of time into designing a very technical, full 30 second animation, all in 3DS Max. I always thought Compelling Creativity was a good one too, so I say, bring back the Honorable Mentions!

[Chris Nowak]

Originally posted by TKatsAniMentor


I think it is strange that they are giving less awards at Nationals now. I know that the regional awards adds more recognition to the teams, but is it really a better route? I guess, it could have been if Autodesk had supported it more. Our animation leader went to vote at our first regional (St. Louis) and he said that there was a little room with a tiny TV with the animations on auto-repeat. No one from Autodesk was present. Also, a team didn't even have to be at the regional to win the award. Team 74 (which I have never seen this animation) won several and Gunn Robotics also won a few. I don't really think that is fair. If you have to submit your chairman's award entry to ONLY 1 regional...the same should be for the animation. To top all this off, FIRST didn't even show the winning animations at most regionals.

at this point I kind of doubt animation can be submitted this way because of the fact that student judging is so inaccurate. I think the main thing autodesk wanted out of regional animation awards was to get rid of all of the really crappy ones. At this point there would be some regionals with only four or five animations at themif you did it the way you suggest, and this doesnt exactly promote animation, does it? I do agree that it is a poor system, they definitely need to improve, like make it so you cant win at more than 1(but then how would they do regionals at the same time as one another?) or something. I also kind of think its ridiculous that we won at 3 regionals, thats kind of too much, considering that we werent officially at great lakes.

[LBK Rules]

Originally posted by xavior06
i would like to see animators unite to create a union that could present a proposal to FIRST and Autodesk...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=19296

Go there. That's all I can think of saying.