Solar Power?

[dddriveman]

Does any one think that it is possible to run a robot off of solor power and, if it is will first use it in the future as a power sorce?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

NO and NO!
The lighting in most venues don't give you much in the way of available power (and they vary greatly in color output) and in winter in most parts of the US you won't be able to run the competition outside where it might work. Even using solar to recharge the batteries would require a large array to get any significant current vs. time for the batteries we use. (remember 4- 6 amps for several hours per battery depending on discharge state)

[Pin Man]

Originally posted by Al Skierkiewicz
NO and NO!
The lighting in most venues don't give you much in the way of available power (and they vary greatly in color output) and in winter in most parts of the US you won't be able to run the competition outside where it might work. Even using solar to recharge the batteries would require a large array to get any significant current vs. time for the batteries we use. (remember 4- 6 amps for several hours per battery depending on discharge state)

I agree...

[Adam Y.]

Does any one think that it is possible to run a robot off of solor power and, if it is will first use it in the future as a power sorce?

Yes it is possible and no First will not use it as a future power source. It is just too annoying to use in a bigger robot. Unless you want to see robots moving at a slow rate then I solar power is not the way to go.

[Jnadke]

I think we'll sooner see fuel cell powered robots than solar powered one's... solar technology just doesn't have a large enough energy density yet...

Fuel cells are still a few years coming... they have methanol powered fuel cells approaching 35% efficiencies, but they can't produce large amounts of current.

[dddriveman]

Thanks for the replies. I was just wandering if it was possible.

[Adam Y.]

Fuel cells are still a few years coming... they have methanol powered fuel cells approaching 35% efficiencies, but they can't produce large amounts of current.

Errr.... You do know that fuel cell technology is all ready being used in cars today. In fact they are being leased in Japan and California for government use.

[Beth Sweet]

i think that a solar powered game would be an interesting idea. mind u we'd have to make sure we always had good weather, or maybe that would be part of the challenge... solar power certainly presents an interesting idea of how we can work with science and technology though. gives u something to think about...

[Adam Y.]

i think that a solar powered game would be an interesting idea. mind u we'd have to make sure we always had good weather, or maybe that would be part of the challenge... solar power certainly presents an interesting idea of how we can work with science and technology though. gives u something to think about...

It is possible but really just not fun to watch. All you would need is
a)A bunch of sollar cells
b) Loads of capicators
c)A sollar engine or some device that can dump the energy from the capicators when they are full
It would be very boring though at such a large scale. Try searching for Beam robotics for more information.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally posted by Adam Y.
It is possible but really just not fun to watch. All you would need is
b) Loads of capacitors

!?!?

I think you mean batteries. Capacitors can't make the current density needed. If anyone is interested in yet another competition (solar that is!) try here...
http://www.formulasun.org/asc/
For the American Solar Challenge.

[Jnadke]

Originally posted by Adam Y.
Errr.... You do know that fuel cell technology is all ready being used in cars today. In fact they are being leased in Japan and California for government use.

Hydrogen-based fuel cells are far too bulky with their storage systems. Smaller fuel cells will be needed for anything decently portable for use on a robot.

[jon]

I've been looking into using Direct Methanol Fuel Cells for a personal project of mine. Size isn't much of a problem. There are a few companies developing some to replace laptop batteries, with longer running time and a quicker recharge. Though currently, they're bigger than most laptop batteries.

Of course, this technology is still pretty new, as far as consumer devices go, and is still quite expensive, so I don't see them as a power source for FIRST robots in the near future. Still though, it's interesting technology.

Anybody have any information on some cheap DMFCs to try out?

[Gadget470]

Originally posted by Adam Y.
Errr.... You do know that fuel cell technology is all ready being used in cars today. In fact they are being leased in Japan and California for government use.

Perhaps he should have said "Fuel cells for public use" are a few years away.

Japan and California's governments won't really help the FIRST competition soon.

[Not2B]

It seems to me people fear solar power...

Yes you can make a robot run on solar power. Like the ones I built sitting on my kitchen table. Check some BEAM robots out.

No I don't think first will use them. Low power density. Plus, the lights would have to be the correct wavelenght for the cells selected, which would also get expensive. (Different types of cells work better around different wavelengths)

But have faith people.... The energy from the sun at 12:00 noon in Arizona in July can reach 1000 W/m^2. (Here in detroit on a sunny day in the summer it's about 550 W/m^2)

Depending on the type of photovoltaic cell you use, you can get different efficiency. Most crappy terrestial cells give you around 8-12%. But there have been "special" (read: expensive) cells that have gone over 40% efficiency.

by the way... just for fun...
36" by 30" = .70m^2
At 10% eff off of 1000 W/m^2 you would get roughly 70 W.
Of course, everyone would have to wear sunscreen, sun glasses, hats, long pants and sleaves for fear of burning... And we would have to watch the robots for melting...

Oh..... one last thing.... you don't need batteries to store energy. Capacites have come a long way, baby. The Beam bots use regular caps, hybrid electrics can and do use ultra-caps and caps made with aerogels.

Sorry - I've spent some time with my friend, the photovoltaic.

[Adam Y.]

Perhaps he should have said "Fuel cells for public use" are a few years away.

I remeber a place where you could obtain fuel cells but I do not remeber the website.