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  #61   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2003, 07:36
jneumiller jneumiller is offline
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Beatty
I am adamantly opposed to mentor background checks. As Ben Franklin said, "If people are willing to trade a little bit of freedom for a little more safety, then they don't deserve freedom or safety". As already stated, who decides what is acceptable and unacceptable? What are the "criteria"? What about someone that smokes cigarettes, isn't that a bad influence? If sex offenders are their concern, then go look then go match the mentor list to the public list and be done with it. I know I will pass the check, but many people here are missing the point.
Most people connected with FIRST are idealists to some extent trying to make the world a better place. This for me is a big step backward. I will not voluntarily submit to a background check and if some "authority-whoever that is" asks me to leave, then so be it.

Sincerely,

Brian Beatty
Brian...

You brought up the spectre of Benjamin Franklin...and I wish I had done so myself. It sets up a much more cogent argument than the frog analogy that I used in an earlier post.

I'm surprised, shocked, disappointed that FIRST (everybody happy I didn't call it US FIRST?) hasn't been paying attention to this forum and at least attempt to put our concerns to rest.

My father was an elementary school teacher for well over 20 years (second career) during which he became a union rep for his district. During those years I recall him having to help teachers that were accused by students of improprieties. Sometimes they were valid and the teachers were deep sixed, other times the teachers were accused by troubled students who fabricated incidents. In either case, I'm sure that in both cases these teachers had been through a background investigation process. It doesn't matter...maybe we need to get the "pre-cogs" taking a peek at our souls.

In the past years, I have encouraged our mentors to avoid the pitfalls mentioned by FIRST in some of their documentation which deals with student contact. Don't put yourself into a situation where you can be accused of doing something wrong. We don't drive students home...we don't work one on one with students behind closed doors....we police ourselves and expect the school adminstrators to back us up.

Our team's dilemma is this...the overwhelming majority of our team's mentors are Dept of Defense civilian and military employees. We already have been through a much more thorough process that has granted us the appropriate levels of security clearance. These investigations delve deeply into our pasts and the fact that we're still employed, doing good things for the country and FIRST (see, I am trainable) should be proof enough that we're worthy of working with our team's students. I am deeply disturbed that FIRST and even some of the folks with the counter viewpoint are trying to use the "what do you have to hide?" argument to twist arms in order to comply.

I, along with my team of highly effective mentors, have nothing to hide but having polled the troops they feel like this invasion of privacy isn't worth it. We'd like to continue our association with FIRST and our team, but I believe we've had a line in the sand drawn in front of the door. Unless something "gives" here, we have no option other than to walk across it.

See y'all on the high ground.

Jim
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Unread 09-12-2003, 08:37
Katie Reynolds Katie Reynolds is offline
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W
As for students that are 18 or 19, you are still students and not mentors. Once you are no longer a student at the school and you return to help THEN you become a mentor. This is common sense.
I'm still waiting for this to be cleared up. I'm not trying to look at every single angle and totally shoot FIRST down, I'm just going by what I see. FIRST says "A Team Mentor is defined as any adult, 18 or older, who works directly with youth on a FIRST Robotics Competition or FIRST LEGO League team."(The Policy) As I'm seeing it, this means that anyone who is over 18 years of age needs to have a background check. Think about it: Yeah, I'm still a high school student but I am 18 years old. I still have contact with minors that are 14, 15, 16, 17 years old. What's to say that a student who is 18 will act any differently than someone the same age who is out of high school. The law is the law. Once you are 18, you are legally an adult - high school student or not.

Hopefully, FIRST will give us some clarification on this soon.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 09:28
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robo hottie71
Actually, it does. If someone gets red-flagged in the screening process, I would imagine they would be banned.
That's not what I posted. If you do not have routine contact with the HS students under the auspices of FIRST, you do not have to submit to the back-ground check.

Even if you are "red-flagged," it is the call of the team leader as to what capacity you can continue to contribute.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robo hottie71
I am am certain that my screen would come back green, so no, I would not be banned from participating on a FIRST team.
How can you be certain if you don't know the criteria by which you will be assessed? Even if you've led a perfect life, who's to say that misinformation about you hasn't filtered into the database?
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Unread 09-12-2003, 10:52
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robo hottie71
Actually, it does. If someone gets red-flagged in the screening process, I would imagine they would be banned. I am am certain that my screen would come back green, so no, I would not be banned from participating on a FIRST team. But I have absolutely no plans to hand over my SSN, so in the eyes of FIRST, I will not have complied with the new policy. Therefore unless something else is said or done, if I participate on the team, FIRST will find (when they get around to my team for auditing) that I had an imcomplete submission and then they will come after me.

What do you suggest I do? And giving my SSN is not an acceptable answer.

Kev
Actually, as the policy makes clear, if your team was audited by FIRST and they discovered that you hadn't complied with the policy they would disqualify the whole team and refer you to the "authorities" whatever that means.

I know that there is very strong objection to this policy here, but is anyone telling FIRST? For all we know, they think we're happily complying with their demands. What should we do to make FIRST aware of our discontent and get this policy changed or revoked?
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Unread 09-12-2003, 11:15
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Actually, as the policy makes clear, if your team was audited by FIRST and they discovered that you hadn't complied with the policy they would disqualify the whole team and refer you to the "authorities" whatever that means.

I know that there is very strong objection to this policy here, but is anyone telling FIRST? For all we know, they think we're happily complying with their demands. What should we do to make FIRST aware of our discontent and get this policy changed or revoked?
Gabriel:

We've contacted FIRST...and it appears that this is going to be a hard and fast requirement for the short term. I would imagine that the more loudly we rats squeak, the more like this will get resolved one way or another.

My advice....if you have a problem with this, let your team leader know your concerns and the impacts. We've already let our team leader know that we will significantly reduce our participation in the effort based on this additional requirement. For the past three years, the mentors I represent have been up to their elbows in the robot every day for six weeks. I don't see that happening this year unless a number of heads come out of their fourth "point of contact." (Any former paratroopers besides me listening?)

See you on the high ground!

Jim
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Unread 09-12-2003, 12:10
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

As a student, I am not affected by this much. But for the adults which I have to work with, I suspect they will feel the same way as most adults here have felt. Giving away one's SSN and being checked for background will just make the adults think that FIRST is too ideal and intrusive. Something similar happened here to a track coach this year, who had drug charges and jail time more than a decade ago. So what? Since then, he's become respected and reformed. When the school district brought up his past again, it was an embarassment and he is currently suing the school district. FIRST, like the school district, shouldn't need to look into someone's past because it's the present and not past that matters.

As Dave mentioned, many companies might not allow employees to give out information concerning work. When I read this, I thought about something else related to companies. If that adult has been working at a reputable company for years, then he/she has already been screened enough to be accepted by that company and acknowledged to have a suitable background or current state of mind/behavior to be working with other people in an environment similar to that of robotics. Why ask them to go through a screening process again? The only case with which I see a useful purpose for screening would be for college-student mentors. They would be the most foreign (save the few that lived there) and new to the community. Not that I have anything against any college-student mentors And not that I approve of screening at all.
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  #67   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2003, 12:51
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

As soon as I read the new policy I realized that some adults would object, for whatever reason, to having a background check made.

My immediate concern is that our team leader must collect and submit approximately 30 orders for background checks. That means he must also make approx. 90 telephone calls to their references. All this with the holidays and Kickoff quickly approaching.

And if any of our adults decide not to participate in the checks, that effectively means they cannot be chaperones on our trips, and we are in the process of booking hotel rooms and airfare for them already! The timing of this policy is awful and shoud have been done during the summer in my opinion. Then we could have explained the policy requirements to the adult volunteers before any fundraising was done, committee work begun, and travel plans made.

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Unread 09-12-2003, 13:12
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

With what little respect I have for this policy, I feel like I need to just come out and say that whatever is in my past is none of FIRST's business. I have spoken with team leaders here and they, too, are extremely annoyed by this policy. Particularly, they realize that this policy will do more to place me at risk for future discrimination and doubtful intentions than it will ever do to protect students. Without knowing the criteria they'll use in determining a mentor's eligibility -- something I believe we're entitled to know as a gesture of faith from FIRST -- I can't be sure what result my background check will have, despite having never done anything harmful or illegal (save for a speeding ticket I got in Pennsylvania a few years ago).

It seems like it's plausible that something as simple as speeding tickets, however, might be cause enough for a red flag. The solution for that may be as simple as prohibiting that individual from driving with students, but because confidentiality must be maintained and because only FIRST staff will have access to why someone's been red flagged, it seems that the only information that'll ever filter down to students and parents is that their mentor has been red-flagged -- either because they can't participate any longer, or because they can't participate in the same capacity as before. People, I believe, will assume the worst and I think that's truly a disservice to the amazing people in this organization who do great work everyday.

It's almost ironic that at kickoff last year, FIRST trumpeted a reformed gang member to the masses, showing the power this program has in changing lives, yet now they're making every effort to ensure someone's past can't be left behind. Would FIRST's screening criteria let the same person they were so proud of last year be a mentor this year? I wonder.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 18:06
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
Even if you are "red-flagged," it is the call of the team leader as to what capacity you can continue to contribute.
Wrong.

From the "FIRST Youth Protection and Adult Leadership Policy"

Quote:
Complete reports color coded “green” represent a clear report; reports color coded “red” represent a report that is not clear and will need further review by the Volunteer Resources Manager at FIRST headquarters. A report that is coded red does not mean that a criminal history exists for the individual, or that the person is disqualified – it only indicates that the report requires further review.

If a volunteer report comes back coded red, send an email to “volunteer@usfirst.org” providing FIRST with the name, address, phone number, and team number of the individual who was screened. FIRST will review the report, will follow-up directly with the applicant, and will notify you of whether or not the applicant is eligible to participate as a FIRST Team Mentor. Details of individual reports will not be released to anyone other than the person who was screened, and will only be made available in the instance of an appeal.
FIRST will review the case, then tell the team leader if the adult can participate or not, but not the reason for the redflag or for being turned away. The team leader will not be allowed to see any information that may come up in the search, just that there was a red flag. It does not mean there was even a criminal history! Mayhaps they were just CHARGED with something 10 years ago and proven innocent, but they might still be redflagged because of that.


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Last edited by Wetzel : 09-12-2003 at 18:09.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 18:15
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

The point is that team leaders don't want to handle peoples's private information like SS #'s or conduct interviews with people given as references. If FIRST wanted to implement this plan it should be everyone entering their own information online with VolunteerSelect.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 18:33
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetzel
Wrong.

From the "FIRST Youth Protection and Adult Leadership Policy"
Quote:
FIRST will review the report, will follow-up directly with the applicant, and will notify you of whether or not the applicant is eligible to participate as a FIRST Team Mentor.

Wetzel
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It says that the person cannot participate as a FIRST team mentor, not that the person cannot participate.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 18:44
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
It says that the person cannot participate as a FIRST team mentor, not that the person cannot participate.
How else would they participate then?
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Unread 09-12-2003, 19:02
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

My own personal 2 cents (not officially representing my team in any fashion):

I am adamantly against this policy for several reasons:
- Cost. There is absolutely no way that teams should be expected to simply eat the cost of $10 per person - many teams have many heavily involved mentors, and this serves to discourage large mentoring groups and/or the recruitment of more mentors into FIRST in general.
- Privacy. I refuse to give a private company that I know little or nothing about my SSN, which is half of what they need to know in order to apply for credit cards in my name and/or max out the ones I have myself. It also follows that it cannot be legally required that I submit it. I've been involved in FIRST for the last two seasons as a student and now am in a mentor role. Social Security Numbers are not advised to be given out by the federal government.
- No Local Control. According to the policy, if there is any question the applicant will be reviewed by FIRST, who has the final say. No local input at all.
- Last year's "reform" example. This was mentioned earlier, what would have happened to last year's stellar example of what FIRST has in terms of effect under the new policy? People change - your past shouldn't hold you accountable for what you are later on. Everyone makes mistakes at one point or another in their life.
- Age. While 18 is the arbitrary "adult" age, students themselves can be as much of a hazard to themselves and others as an adult. Maturity has much more to do with actions.
- Liability. What would happen if someone slipped under the radar? That could blow up in FIRST's face even worse.

I'm not completely against background checks, I just don't believe that their implementation has any rational basis, or that teams should be expected to just turn around and have the money on hand - many teams are having financial trouble as it is - to go through frivolous checks. These sort of checks should be at the discretion of the school whose students are involved, not a national level.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 19:38
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
How else would they participate then?
Designing the systems, machining the parts, programming the controller, etc.
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Unread 09-12-2003, 19:54
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Re: Volunteer Screening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
Designing the systems, machining the parts, programming the controller, etc.
...locked away somewhere far from students.

If someone is red-flagged and later told they can't participate as a mentor, can they still participate on the periphery of a team as this suggests? Is it okay for a red-flagged person to show up once or twice instead of every week? That's acceptable for others and they don't require a background check, so I wonder what risk some people might be taking by undergoing the check.
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